Calm in the Chaos: Navigating Anxiety with Jim Schreiber

Welcome to a new episode of Overcome - a Mental Health Podcast!

In this episode, we dive into the complexities of anxiety—what it feels like, how it affects us, and practical strategies for managing it. Whether you're experiencing anxiety yourself or trying to understand it better, we explore coping mechanisms and share insights from our own stories. Tune in to gain a better understanding of this all-too-common experience and how to find calm amidst the chaos. 

About Jim Schreiber:

Jim is a 15-year veteran of consumer goods startups and the recent founder of Vital Spring, the world's first premium mineral replenisher.

https://www.vital-spring.com/

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Transcript

Travis White (00:00.844)
Hello and welcome to Overcome, a mental health podcast. A safe place for you to tell your story. I'm very excited for today's guest. I'd like to welcome John McCloud to the show. John is a career and life coach and public speaker, and he's big on helping out as many people as he can. And from here, I'm just going to turn the time over to John and let him tell his story.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (00:28.526)
Well, Travis, thanks so much for having me on the podcast. It's an honor to be here. You know, I am from Brooklyn, New York. And if you're not familiar with Brooklyn, New York, just think of the movies. Think of if you're from the LA side, think of Compton. It looks like that in some places and it's like that in some places. So you can imagine that there's not a lot of mental health conversations going around going on where I'm from.

and I wasn't taught about it. You know, I'm a, I'm a faith, I'm a believer in God faith-based man. so, you know, I was taught and it was the blessing of learning how to pray was something that saved my life early on. you know, grew up around gang violence, grew up, you know, I've been almost killed several times. I've been guns pointed at knives slash that, that type of thing, you know,

It's been, it's been crazy, but all of those things I believe that have led me to this avenue of mental health, because I was always a person that was deeply invested in the way people think, why they make the decisions that they do. And that journey of going through life like that, where everybody's always surviving in some way, or form led me to

understanding and locking into, well, everybody's actually in pain, but they're expressing their pain in multiple ways. Some people express their pain when they're in survival mode by grinding out. I'm going to work two, three, four jobs because I have to. Others say, I'm going to turn to violence. Others say, I'm going to turn to drugs. People say like whatever, when people are dealing with pain and they have to very much.

figure out an outlet or conduit to get that pain out. They will do almost anything. And it's there. Most people are products of their environments, but the big underlying thing, Travis, I want everybody to understand and know is that that is every choice you make belongs to you. The environment isn't something that you can change, so to speak, to a degree.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (02:56.45)
But you can, every choice that you make affects you and comes from you and is representative of you. And just because you made a few mistakes or even a million mistakes doesn't disqualify you from being able to go after and get better mental health for yourself. And just because you're dealing with something and feel down, out, depressed, anxious, imposter syndrome, those things don't disqualify you from

being able to get better, seek help, level up in any way, shape or form. And I started to see as I started to get deeper into the mental health journey, how many people are actually faking it? How many people were covering and covering and burning out at the same time? The covering took so much energy becoming someone else took so much energy that by the time they really wanted to

show and express a version of themselves that was authentic. They didn't even feel comfortable doing so. So they reverted back to the version that they created, that they believed everyone else liked and appreciated. And they really, really lost themselves in that version and that cover, that, that costume that they put on. And I started to see, and, you know, I, I've different points of our life. I'm a multimedia producer now.

also, but I'm also, I was a reporter at one point. So I've interviewed Ron James, Dwayne Wade, Derek Jeter. I've been in press conferences and I started to see an underlying, one underlying common denominator. And it doesn't matter how much money you have. It doesn't matter what your background is, where you came from, what you've been through. Everybody deals with some form.

of mental health, whether it's good or bad, whether it's, know, in, in, you know, incline increasing or declining and decreasing some way, or form, they deal with it. And it doesn't matter how good you are at something. You still will face it at some point. Most people face, imposter syndrome when they get to certain levels. dang, this is pretty high up. I didn't ever expect it to be here.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (05:21.846)
Now people have all these expectations because I'm so good at this thing. I can't say that I'm going to do something else because people have emotionally locked me into being this thing in this avenue. And I've had, can't tell you how many conversations I've had with athletes across the country and just asking them several questions. And one big question, how do you deal with the expectations of others?

And some have great answers and say, it doesn't matter. Cause that's the way I believe. I don't care what anybody else thinks because the second you start caring about other people's thoughts, that's the cage that you put yourself in and you are no longer free. But I went, yeah, jump in.

Travis White (06:04.384)
Yeah, can I, sorry, can I speak to that really quick? I figured out that the hard way, if you depend so much on what others think, like you're not going to be able to fully be yourself. It took me years to admit that I have a problem like with anxiety and depression. And all those years too, I was living like in the expectations of others and not.

being myself, I was in that cage. And once I feel like it was only in the last year that I've learned to let go and actually kind of step out of my comfort zone and try to be my authentic self.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (06:34.712)
Yeah.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (06:39.554)
Hmm.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (06:48.898)
Let me ask you Travis, what was the turning point for you?

Travis White (06:54.732)
Um, honestly, the turning point for me was, so I've had a seizure disorder for years now. And, uh, last year it came back full force. Like before that for years, it was just like one or two seizures a year. And then it was pretty much came back and I had like 30 seizures within like probably two weeks, spent some time in the hospital. And, you know, I was down, I have three young kids.

And it was like, if this keeps up, a couple of things are going to be like, happen. Like I'm not going to be able to provide for my family. I may not be here because my health is declining. And when my physical health declines, my mental health also goes. So there was a point at end of last year where I was dissociating and having

suicidal thoughts and stuff. And that was the point where I was like, you know what, I'm done. It was kind of just awakening. the funny thing is, is I feel like I've had multiple awakenings throughout my life. But this is the one where I decided like, you know what, it doesn't matter what it takes now. I'm going to eat better and do what I have to to improve my physical and mental health.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (08:17.122)
Man, Travis, I commend you, brother. That's incredible. And I'm sure somebody listening is inspired by that because a lot of people don't make it back from that. A lot of people never get to the point that, and to say like, you know what? I'm going to shape, figure out a way to win. That's a lot. That's like, I don't want to gloss over that. Like that's, that's a lot to deal with and to have children at that.

Travis White (08:40.012)
Sleep.

Travis White (08:47.212)
It takes a lot of work, but I firmly believe that I'm like you. I am a big believer. And with God in my life, I know that he's going to be there to help me out wherever I need that help. He's watching over me, and it's because of him that I was able to get out of the grot that I was in.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (09:13.088)
Absolutely. And, and I am glad that you said that because I'm the type of person anywhere I go, I have a conversation. I have to give, give it back to God because I can count and I'm sure you can do the same thing. How many times I've almost died and God's hand was all through it. And more importantly, his hand was locked into my mind.

keeping me at peace in some very tumultuous situations and not knowing what was going to happen, but having that base that was, you know what, regardless of what happens.

He's got me. That's difficult and that's powerful.

Travis White (09:58.976)
Yeah. And living in with some of those near-death experiences, I'm sure you totally feel that there's a purpose that you're still here. And you're doing it. You're helping people out.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (10:14.4)
No, absolutely. I literally was telling this story earlier today about the time where I've almost, I almost died on December 25th, 2017. I had two massive pulmonary embolisms. Doctor said the one in my left lung people have died from. He's, she's seen it, but she said the one in my right lung was, was bigger and she's, they just didn't know how it was alive. She said, I don't know how you survived that. And, and

It was one of those things where you look back, she said, you should be dead right now. And I said to her, I said, I can't go until I finish what God has for me to do. And that, that is a mental health fortifying machine because it's based on purpose. think a lot of things that really hurt people and why depression gets a lot of people is because they feel that they don't have purpose beyond what's happening to them.

Travis White (11:00.12)
huh.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (11:14.23)
And I know what, I know what that feels like and what that sounds like and what that looks like. And I know for a fact, it was the purpose that illuminated my ambition to keep going. I, when I felt and knew what my purpose was, I then started to attack life with vigor and with aggression because I had somewhere to go. had somewhere to be. And I had a reason to keep going.

You know, what happens a lot is like, you know, your mind will play tricks on you and say, well, this is, well, this is, is going to work out. Well, you you don't have the energy to do that. You don't have the health to do that. There's no point of doing this. And then it starts to beat down over time. It's not something that happens immediately. It's this constant hit that happens like a trickle over and over that withers away at your faith.

in your, in your confidence until you start to believe the doubt. But when you start to have, when you have, when you find and have the purpose, you go from doubting, doubting one way to doubting another way. In the before the purpose, you doubt that things are going to work out. After the purpose, you doubt that you can be stopped.

Travis White (12:29.452)
Mm-hmm.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (12:39.404)
You doubt that there's nothing. I doubt that anything could come against me. And that is the beauty behind what God puts into your mind and how he starts to infuse and starts to develop because it's that literal purpose that pulls you out of the dumps. It pulled me out of the dumps several times. I dealt with it. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.

Travis White (12:39.436)
Mm-hmm.

Travis White (12:59.34)
I'm right there with you. It's pulled me out several times. There were times where I feel like I was losing my faith to even go on. didn't know what the future held. Every time that happened, I was reprimanded in one way or another saying, you're going to lose it all if you don't do something about it and change your life.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (13:28.268)
Yeah, absolutely. It changes your life. It changes the circumstances and it also, when you start to move in a certain way, it starts to change your atmosphere because I know you've heard this several times and the listeners probably heard it as well. There's something happens when you make a decision. Everything else gets out of your way. When you make a decision,

everything else gets out of your way. And people like to say, the universe goes into alignment. Nah, that's, that's God giving you the head nod and saying, go ahead. it's built and on that purpose. And we can fight and defeat depression and anxiety. If we find purpose, that's what I believe. If we find purpose, anxiety and depression and imposter syndrome are defend. They can't do anything.

because the purpose outweighs everything. And a fantastic story that I heard, I went to this, a vision seminar a couple months ago, one of the speakers on the first day, he gave this scenario to somebody, a young woman in the crowd, and she was there with her son.

And he didn't know that the guy next door was her son at first. And he said, let me ask you a question. I'll give you $10 million, but we have to play a game. The game is I'm not going to look at you, but I have a gun, imaginary gun, and I'm going to turn around and point it in your direction aimlessly. I'm not even going to look.

If, and if I hit you, you know, if I don't hit you, you get $10 million. If I hit you, you're dead. Would you want to do that? The lady said, no, I'm not playing that game because if, if you end up hitting me, I'm done. She said, okay. And her son jokingly said,

Jon McLeod -  Coach (15:38.848)
Well, I don't mind if she plays the game because I'll get the $10 million as her successor. And everybody starts laughing, right? And he goes, wait, is that your son? goes, yeah, that's my son. Not my favorite right now, as you can probably see. And she goes, he goes, okay, I'll play another game with you. Now I'm facing you and I'm pointing the gun at your son and you have a choice.

I'm aiming it at him, this bullet is gonna hit him. What are you going to do? The mother said, I'm jumping in front of that bullet. You're not hitting my son. And he said, what changed?

And she's like, I don't know. was, I didn't want him to die. He said, your purpose changed. He said, this was, there was no purpose behind the first one and you didn't want to take a chance. But even though you were still afraid of this, it's the same bullet. You were still afraid, but the purpose was different. So the purpose outweighed what you were afraid of. And when he said that, man, when I tell you I almost passed out of my seat because it was so powerful.

to see and the whole room felt it. And the power of purpose is mattress. It can defeat anything. I 100 % wholeheartedly believe that.

Travis White (17:03.264)
Yeah, I agree. And I think that's kind of back to what I was saying, like with my health problems. I feel like my kids and my wife gave me that purpose to continue to live on and better myself.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (17:18.956)
And that's the beauty, man, because...

We think most times that we're going through the emotions of just, know, you know, let's, let's do what we're supposed to do. Marry, get married, have kids, have a great job. You know, you know, go on vacation, spend time, take the pictures, make the memories. And we see it, the purpose and useful use case in through those lenses. But we often forget about, you know,

God is the master chess player. He's the grand master of all. He plants moves five, 10 years ahead and you collide with the moves that he's already put in place. This is not checkers. We play checkers because we could only see what in front of us, but he's playing chess. So he knew that you needed that purpose for those moments. So he planted your wife and those kids.

before those moments even came. Knowing that there will come a time they will serve multiple purposes in your life. They will fulfill multiple things. But one of the greatest purposes they serve or they fulfill is that moment when you needed them. Where they didn't really actually do anything specific, but their existence gave you what you needed to overcome the impossible.

And that's why I look at life and I look at things because it's really incredible when you start to see the different plans of what happens, especially when it pertains to your mental health, because a lot of people don't, they take it for granted until they're in trouble. They're in trouble. Then things start to come to the forefront. They pay attention. But if you start to, if you look ahead and you've set your mind on the things above and you start to see.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (19:18.814)
life from a different perspective and you start to see the little things that have purpose that are important. Your perspective changes and you actually fortify yourself mentally in a way that a lot of people don't because their mind is so fixated on how can I win? How can I make more money? How can I find more success? How can I get that dopamine hit of success that will surpass, you know, everything else in my life?

And they search for that dopamine hit and that drug hit of appraisal from other people, especially through social media, that they fail to look and notice the specific purposes of things in their lives, man. So man, that's incredible to hear from you on your part.

Travis White (20:09.482)
And I do have a question for you. I want to go back to your near-death experiences. How did those experiences change your perspective on life?

Jon McLeod -  Coach (20:21.228)
Well, first off, it had me understand how quickly everything can be over. And knowing that you don't have as much time as you know, you believe you do kind of change the sense of changes, the sense of urgency of the things you want to accomplish or the things you want to achieve. The second thing it did was ground me in. If ground me in my faith and purpose, if

If I can survive all those times and I've seen so many other people die.

That means I'm, I am here for a purpose and I'm going to live my life on purpose to collide with that. And when it is my time, I'm going to, live my life with no regrets. Now, when it is my time, I'm going to be incredibly happy because it's a freeing, mental way of going about things that I'm no longer bound by the fear of what could happen. I'm not afraid to die.

It's the ultimate graduation for people that believe. It's the ultimate promotion, yeah.

Travis White (21:33.868)
I love that, live life on purpose. I really like that saying.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (21:39.17)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it gets to like, cause Travis, when you think about it, it's, we live life based. Most people live life on the principles of the ideal. What is the ideal of success? Let me ask you a question, Travis. Could you ever actually be at the horizon?

Jon McLeod -  Coach (22:05.57)
Could you ever be literally at the horizon?

Travis White (22:10.678)
I would say no. No, like it's, cause to me they're, yeah, the horizon changes. it's.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (22:11.968)
No, you absolutely cannot. It's impossible.

Yes. And that's exactly the second you take a step towards the horizon, simultaneously, it takes a step away from you. So it's the same way people, I tell people all the time and I tell my students all the time, you have to stop basing your success on the horizon mentality. I will, I will consider myself successful when I achieve this. I will consider myself mentally strong when I get to this point.

Travis White (22:24.684)
Yeah.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (22:46.444)
And instead you have to look at life in retrospect. Where were you and where are you? Where did you, where did you come from and where are you now? And when you look at life based on how much you've overcome, shout out to the overcome podcast, you start to really see how much you've achieved. That's what success really is.

Travis White (23:05.782)
Mm-hmm.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (23:14.476)
Success is the collection of things that you've experienced and learned the most from and ultimately overcome.

Travis White (23:25.566)
I love it. I love it.

Travis White (23:30.55)
So.

Travis White (23:38.86)
Sorry, my thoughts escaped me. My mind is like one of those moments where my mind is like went blank.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (23:41.0)
Nah, it's all good,

Jon McLeod -  Coach (23:47.764)
Yeah, no, get it. I do have a question for you, man. Like you, you created this, podcast. What was, what was your thought process? What was the defining moment in the thought process that helped you create this podcast?

Travis White (23:51.36)
Yeah, go for it.

Travis White (24:08.074)
You know, like I've had this idea for this podcast for probably at least a year or two. And it's the thought process was just, want a place where people can come on and tell their stories. Like, it's kind of goes back to what you said. Like everybody has like mental health issues for the most part, like, or maybe if they're not going through it themselves, they're, they're familiar with somebody who has it. And I wanted to create an safe place for them to come on.

and tell me their story. Because I know I have a story, but I'm only one person. I can't, like I want you to hear everybody else's story and hopefully just have that one person at some point reach out and say, you know what, you changed me. Like this episode really got to me and maybe be able to push forward through life. But it took me, it took me years to actually, well,

about a year to actually get my feet on the ground and do it. And I think that goes back to what you mentioned before. I felt a sense of imposter syndrome, like I wasn't good enough to actually start it, that I wouldn't get anywhere. And then I actually heard a podcast and the guy, it was a podcast on podcasting and he said that if you have a message, then do it. Like if you have a microphone, that's first step.

And as soon as you get behind that microphone, like you need to get over yourself and it doesn't matter if you mess up. doesn't matter if you're the best speaker. You just need to throw it out there because somebody is going to listen. So I kind of took that those words of wisdom into account. And like at the beginning of the year, I was like, you know what? I'm going to throw myself in this. I'm going to do it. And so I was still pretty early on in the podcasting world, but

And I'm happy to be here and just want to keep building.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (26:13.666)
man, I commend you, that's incredible, And I can't wait to see where you end up because this is such a powerful platform that you've created. One thing I did want to mention and I would love your thoughts on it as well is one thing that's big that I go into the communities and talk a lot about, excuse me, is men's mental health.

We don't talk enough about it because there aren't enough safe space for safe spaces for it. And men die by suicide more than women. The rates are astronomical every year. And, yet we're the last, some of the, you know, the, we're the last people to go after, therapy and the first to cover.

and the first to act like everything is okay even when we're in pain and the first to shut down a safe space because it's seen as weak. So when you think about men's mental health, what are some of the things that come to mind for you?

Travis White (27:29.74)
For me, I believe that it's society that has created kind of this place where men don't have the strength to come forward because it makes them look bad. And I believe though that it's...

I'm trying to think of how to word it.

Travis White (28:03.114)
And I believe there's still such a stigma to it. And, but it's like this.

kind of run that we have to get over and just keep pushing forward to get more people to come out and talk about their issues with mental health. And I think what the hardest part is being vulnerable, being able to actually open up and say, you know what, I have this problem. I suffer from depression, you know?

Jon McLeod -  Coach (28:22.978)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (28:34.392)
Why do you think that is?

Travis White (28:38.758)
I think it all comes back to like the stigma with mental health and it's like, and maybe it could also be a generational thing. Like I was in my family. Sorry, if anybody in my family is listening, but we didn't really talk about mental health. I don't really know anybody's viewpoints on it too much. But then I have my like my wife and

some of her family members that are pretty open about it. And so I feel like that's maybe, you know, I'm not afraid to do it. Like, don't, I think we care so much about what everybody else thinks. That's something that needs to stop.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (29:23.124)
I agree. And it needs to stop. I think, you know, generations have gone by with this stigma of, you know, if you're not completely broken in some way physically, what are you really complaining about? If you have a roof over your head and food on the table and clothes on your back, what are you complaining about? And

A lot of law for a long time has been seen as dealing with my mental health is seen as being selfish or ungrateful, which is completely inaccurate. It's actually, you know, you're actually making yourself better for your family. But a lot of people don't understand that they think.

you should be fine. Like you got a good job, you got a good income, you got a family, you got beautiful wife, beautiful kids. A lot of people don't have the stuff that you have. You shouldn't be complaining. And they missed the that it's, I'm not complaining, I'm looking for help. That doesn't mean everything is perfect.

Travis White (30:29.984)
Yeah, and it's...

Travis White (30:38.794)
Yeah, exactly. And I feel like there's such a pressure on us in life in general to go do things a certain way, to stick to a mold. And if you don't follow that mold or if you go against it, you're a problem. And it's like, no, you need to do what you have to do to survive.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (31:02.934)
Yep. No, and I am with you. Like, I'm a cyber person. I'm not going to, I do not care what anybody else thinks. I can't, I'm not gonna, I cannot waste my time with the thoughts of other people because they don't, I can't allow them to affect me that way if what I'm doing has nothing to do with them and it doesn't affect them in any way. That's, that's like drinking poison and waiting for somebody else to die.

Travis White (31:31.092)
And one thing that really helped me, like on my journey with like mental health was figuring out how to have the right attitude.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (31:40.334)
Hmm

Travis White (31:42.454)
So it's, you know, like it's not, it has to be the right attitude. Like if it's, if I'm going somewhere and like, it's like, I don't want him to do therapy. I don't want to, I don't want to take the steps and fill out this paper to, you know, help me out. I don't want to do breath work. And if I'm just negative about it all the time, like I know some of this stuff sucks to go through. I've been through it. But if I change my attitude and look at it, like, you know what?

I'm just going to do this. It doesn't matter. And push through it and have a good attitude about it. It just makes things so much easier.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (32:20.598)
Absolutely. And on top of that, once you change your attitude and you change how and who you communicate to, it's over. I'm a big person on how to communicate effectively. And one ways that I teach is how to communicate directly, how to explain without feeling.

Travis White (32:30.892)
Thank

Jon McLeod -  Coach (32:44.8)
responsible for somebody else's feelings and how to own it while you are still developing it because a lot of people think that you have to get let me get good before I do what I need to know you get good as you start to do it and simultaneously go after it

Travis White (33:04.204)
Yeah, it's a work of progress.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (33:08.94)
Yes. And so many people miss that because they want to be perfect or good enough. And they've, they missed the whole point. Good enough is a mental state of being. It's a feeling. It's not something that actually is. It's a feeling. I feel good enough. Meaning I feel secure about where I am and what I can do when it comes to this situation. So now I'll do it.

Instead if you if you communicate effectively, so is so first thing people that people have to do is you have to understand All right, who are the biggest culprits in your life? When it comes to your mental health who's affecting you the most? All right, once you have that and make a list I'm big I'm a big believer of lists and breaking stuff down so that you have a physical copy and of things so you can see it

You make the list of the people that are the most, they're affecting your mental health the most. And then you start to, next to their names, can, I've gone as far as putting each person's name on a sheet of paper and then start defining what is it that they say or do that makes you, your mental health decline or incline?

What is it that they say or do if, if they're pulling away and they're damaging your mental health, what is it that they say or do that makes it worse? And you write those things down and you start to see, okay, with David, every time I talk to David, he's always negative. He's always pessimistic. I may be excited at things, but the second I say something to him, it gets shut down, destroyed and

I just can't do it. The other part of that that I add and I make sure I tell people is, what relationship do you have to that person? Who is that person to you? So if, okay, if David is my boss or, I can't do anything or, or, or, or Jake or Jack or whoever. All right. What, what's the dynamic there?

Jon McLeod -  Coach (35:33.536)
And when you start to define those things, then you start to get to the solution portion, which is, okay, I have no other choice but to communicate. how am going to do it? Because, and I always tell my players or my students when I coach them,

There, cannot give yourself a choice whether or not you're going to do this because you've already lived the life of not taking action on this. You're going through it right now. The reason why you're suffering in silence is because you haven't communicated yet or the communication that you have isn't strong enough or good enough or worst case scenario, you have communicated, but they've disrespected you and they are not

abiding by the rules in which you now have a responsibility to make a decision that's in your best interest to increase your mental health. But when people have to go through that sequence and I'm, I always teach it over and over again, because once you start to realize, okay, Sally is, I get anxious or I get depressed around Sally because she just sucks all the air out of the room.

I can't be around that every single time. And I have no choice because she's my coworker and I sit next to her, she's on my team. And I've tried to encourage her, but she's not getting the hint. And I can't get rid of her because she doesn't report to me or anything like that. And I can't fire her. She hasn't really done anything wrong. It's just difficult.

The solution, you have to have a conversation with Sally. Sally, lately I've been, you sound like there's other things that are bothering you, but I have to be honest with you. It's, I believe it's starting to affect me as well. I don't know if you're doing that intentionally, but how can we work together to help you improve or to change?

Jon McLeod -  Coach (37:46.69)
Now you think that sometimes a lot of people think that's a conversation only for their leaders and their bosses. Now that's for you too. Because you have to be the leader of your space and your mental health. You have to be the boss of that. You have to manage that. That is your direct report. That is your direct report. The person that's on your team. Because if you don't deal with it, somebody else is going to affect it in multiple ways.

And we could only handle what's in our control. So that's the framework I give people and start to map it out because it makes sure it ensures that you address the problem and address the person. Cause most of the time it's a person and when it's not a person and it's a circumstance, circumstances can be altered with communication with a person.

every single time.

Travis White (38:46.712)
love it. In ways you have to say something because over time I've dealt with people in the workforce they're just difficult to work with. If you don't say something somebody's eventually going to blow up or you're just going to be miserable day in and day out working with that person.

And one thing that has really helped me in the years, like with that type of situation is trying to build a relationship with my coworkers from day one.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (39:21.516)
There we go.

Travis White (39:24.67)
of it.

What would you say is like?

our most valuable asset in life.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (39:36.222)
Mmm. Oof.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (39:41.718)
Our most valuable asset in life is your belief.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (39:50.358)
It's what you believe. And we said this earlier in the podcast, I'm a believer in God, you're a believer in God. It's the thing that keeps us grounded. It's the thing that gives me purpose. That your belief is, your purpose is rooted in your belief. And without belief, you wander aimlessly.

with no with no direction. No instruction, just going through the motions as people like to call it.

Your biggest asset that you could fortify is what you believe about yourself, what you believe about your future, what you believe about your family, and what you believe about the circumstances that you find yourself in. Because there's a difference between somebody that believes that they can overcome and those that believe that they'll never make it. You see it in the actions that people take.

People's actions, all of it are based on what they believe deep down. So some people have liabilities as beliefs and they lose money. Metaphorical money, life money, we'll call it. They lose it and they run out of it and they hemorrhage it because they believe a certain thing.

Travis White (41:16.748)
You can do that, buddy.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (41:26.05)
You'll, I'll never lose weight because I'll never be able to get to this country because, and what you continue to believe is exactly what happens. That's why people say, watch what you say because it will become true. Because the words that are spoken are based on a belief.

Travis White (41:42.543)
Mm-hmm.

Travis White (41:50.24)
Yep. It's like, you know, going back just like to the mental health side of things, like I've before this last year, I've never been like huge fan of like affirmations. I think they work better for some people than they do for others. Like it's kind of iffy for me, but there's certain ones that have helped me. But if I sit there and tell myself, know what, I can do this, I can do this. I'm good enough. Eventually.

I'm going to start believing it and whatever it is that I am saying that about, it's going to happen.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (42:28.398)
All I believe in 100 % to I'm with you. I actually created a nighttime affirmations audio because there there was a doctor I forget his name. He started to talk about how you can subconsciously program the mind right before you go to sleep because it's the second it's the subconscious mind that

holds the 90 % of your systems. And when people talk about affirmations out loud, when they're conscious, it has to pass the conscious mind. And when you say it over and over, it then goes into the subconscious. But when you go to sleep, right before you go to sleep, if you listen to a subconscious program, the one I created is to over, literally, it's overcoming fear and doubt.

And you sit there and you listen to it right before you fall asleep. And while you fall asleep, it's feeding that into your subconscious because that's the, that's the brain that's intact. That's working. That's front and center. I call it the night crew. They're the night crew cleaning up everything, fixing everything, running the systems in the background while your eyes are shut off. You know, you know, all the main systems, your mind is shut down.

is in sleep mode and when you play these science-based, sub, the subconscious program, it starts to feed into, okay, you start to naturally believe things because you're not having to, there's no filter. It's just feeding right into it. So I just listened to it all the time and then you find yourself repeating it and saying it.

over and over again and start to believe your actions start to be different. You start to then push and say, oh, shoot, well, I can do that. Oh, I can do that. Oh yeah. people would, and people try to hack it to be like, you know, I attract money. I attract this, you know, I don't, I'm not necessarily, I'm not against that, but I'm not 100 % for that because

Travis White (44:46.422)
Mm-hmm.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (44:48.514)
There's a system that has to happen with that. Like you have to have structured in order to obtain and sustain money. But the strength in the subconscious program, in my opinion, is based in the rooted ideologies of your mind, of what you believe. So yes, I am better. I'm not afraid to take risks. I'm intellectual. I like to read. I like to...

Those little things that you want to become, you continue to feed that to your mind and you naturally, your emotions are tailored in that direction because you've been saying it. That's why propaganda is so dangerous. So yeah.

Travis White (45:31.18)
Yeah. Yes. It's all embedded in our heads.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (45:35.662)
Exactly. That's literally subconscious work right in front of you.

Travis White (45:44.214)
Yeah, and that's exactly why there's certain things I can't watch anymore.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (45:50.154)
Amen to that, Yep.

Travis White (45:50.412)
or read.

Travis White (45:55.5)
What, I mean, this is just a pretty kind of general question, but I'd love to ask this question. What advice would you give anybody that's struggling with mental health issues right now?

Jon McLeod -  Coach (46:11.064)
Well, first thing we gotta identify, first before we do that, have to agree on one thing. You have to be honest with yourself. You have to start with honesty with yourself because you've already been practicing something that's not true or lie. And that is the belief that where you are now feels like you're never gonna get out of it.

I know for a fact that you will if you keep going. But I also know that it'll take longer if you're not honest with yourself. So once you achieve, you know what? I am going through something. I am struggling. This does suck. I am not, I'm not happy with where I am in life. Then you get, that honesty is the thing that frees you. The true self, know the truth and true self set you free. It frees you because you're being honest.

And once you are honest, then you start to, let's start to pinpoint the things that make you feel the worst. That's this is, this is difficult work. It's hard to do, but knowing the things that make you feel worse can help you unpack some things that maybe you haven't unpacked. And we have to do the difficult work upfront to have the strength and the stamina to sustain you this version of you. That's better.

that doesn't feel depressed, that doesn't feel anxious, that doesn't feel like an imposter or fake or not good enough. You gotta deal with that stuff, the tough stuff upfront so that it gets easier later. So once you identify and do those things, the last thing I'll say is don't expect...

ups and downs, like don't expect everything to be up and up once you start to realize, okay, I got it. I'm good. I got purpose. I'm moving forward. Don't expect things to be, to be great forever, but do expect your ability to overcome, to increase because it takes consistency. takes work. It takes commitment and it takes a whole lot of faith and belief that you are going to be better. And that is

Jon McLeod -  Coach (48:31.212)
That happens when you go through experiences and overcome them. Every time you see yourself overcome something, it builds this, it's that layer that's on the foundation of I can do this. I'm not going to be a failure. I've already succeeded at something else. That experience, those experiences allow you to be.

10 times better or even 1 % better each and every day. 5 % better each and every obstacle and experience you get through. So doing those things will absolutely change your life and more importantly give you the necessary stamina you need to pull yourself out and eventually help somebody else get out.

Travis White (49:23.372)
And you hit right on the money what happened with me. Like it was taking a step back and realizing that I had a problem. I had to be honest with myself and say, I'm going through this because I don't feel like I was, I feel like before that, like it was like every time I'd take a step forward, it'd be like three or four steps back and I'd just be stuck.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (49:49.004)
Yeah, I get it. It's hard. Because once we start feeling the momentum of success and feeling better, we never want it to end. But if it doesn't end, we don't really learn. We learn way more in failure than we ever do in success. So it's important to really ground yourself in like, hey, I'm going to enjoy this now, but I'm not going to pretend that it's always supposed to be like this.

Travis White (50:02.655)
very true.

Travis White (50:17.28)
Yeah, it's just basically learning that different techniques and tools you can use to cope with the bed.

It's really what it comes down to, like for me anyways, is like, I know the depression is not going to go away. know the anxiety is not going to leave me. Like I just have to learn how to recognize what is coming on and take a step back, take a couple of breaths, know, count, breathe, whatever it is I do in those moments to move forward.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (50:26.496)
Absolutely.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (50:56.334)
That's right,

Travis White (50:59.624)
Is there anything that you'd like to bring up that we did not discuss that you can?

Jon McLeod -  Coach (51:06.56)
No, no, I thought, you know, I thought we had an incredible conversation and I'm just grateful to even have this honor to be talking with you, Travis, because what you're doing is an incredible work and it's going to help a lot of people. So I'm honored to be a part of.

Travis White (51:20.896)
I'm hoping so. I'm hoping so. I'm glad you were on the show. I'm really grateful that you came on. It's amazing to get to meet so many people. Where can our listeners find you?

Jon McLeod -  Coach (51:30.456)
Thank you.

Jon McLeod -  Coach (51:40.418)
Well, you can find me on TikTok, coach John McLeod on Instagram. Same thing. Coach John McLeod. and I have a book on Amazon, seven day mental reset and how to shift your mind, start the process of shifting your mind into a more positive way in just seven days. and I have a second, it's a workbook. I have a second workbook coming in for, for leaders. It's called grit and growth.

the playbooks and the plays for leaders to be mentally fortified and much better. So that book is coming out. And last but not least, my audio books with my positive subconscious nighttime recordings is going to be on audible soon. So I'm working to try to help as many people as I possibly can, help in fortify and strengthening their minds.

Travis White (52:38.376)
Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you, John. Please follow us on Instagram and YouTube at Overcome Pod. We post on every major podcast platform, Spotify, Apple, you name it, we're probably on there. The best thing you can do for us is share our content, like us, follow us, subscribe, whatever it is that you do.

And thank you all for listening. Until next time.