Overcome - A Mental Health Podcast

Healing & Growth: A Mental Health Coach’s Guide to Wellness with Phillip Quinones

• Episode 7

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In this insightful episode of Overcome: A Mental Health Podcast, host Travis White sits down with Phillip Quinones, a passionate therapist and mental health coach with a background in clinical counseling psychology. From growing up with a uniquely mature perspective to discovering his calling through unexpected twists, Phillip shares his powerful journey into the mental health field.

Together, they dive deep into:

  • The real role of a therapist: not a healer, but a guide for change
  • The five stages of change and how they apply to daily life
  • Tools Phillip uses with clients to manage anxiety and depression
  • Why therapy sometimes doesn’t work—and how to find the right fit
  • How to ask for help and create the support system you need
  • Breaking down stigma: why we still misunderstand mental health

This episode isn’t just about therapy—it’s about what it means to be human, to hurt, to want more, and to finally step into the possibility of change.

Learn more about Phillip:

PQ Coaching and Consulting

Follow on Instagram: @pqcoachingandconsulting

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Travis White (00:01.214)
Hello and welcome to a mental health pod or overcome a mental health podcast. I am very excited for today's guest. I am speaking to Philip Keonis. Philip is a passionate mental health professional, holds a bachelor's degree in psychology from Georgia State University and a master's in clinical counseling psychology from Bernou University with extensive experience supporting individuals in their mental health journeys and managing his

own coaching business. Philip specializes in guiding both individuals and couples through different challenges driven by passion for helping others. He's committed to making

Travis White (00:44.35)
covering it up to making healing and personal growth accessible to all. Philip, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

Phillip Quinones (00:52.91)
I'm doing well, thank you for having me Travis.

Travis White (00:55.176)
Yeah, well, let's just start out, know, if you could just tell me like what inspired you to pursue a career in mental health.

Phillip Quinones (01:04.13)
Yeah, so I think it kind of was more of a happenstance in my life. Things were happening before I even knew I kind of wanted to go in that route with more of a intentfulness. So.

A little bit about me, I grew up an only child and my mom had me at 36. So my family culture is from the U.S. Virgin Islands. So technically we're Caribbean, but I grew up here in Atlanta, Georgia. So with that being said, my mom didn't bring me up. My mom raised me, which is a different type of development, you know, of a child where she was already.

you know, really established almost near, you know, almost half her life before bringing me up. And so with that being said, I had an experience of just having maturity around me, stability, insightfulness, and with her personality as well, which is she's been in higher education too with.

her having a Madison's degree as well, and her personality was just very high in conscientiousness. I really had an old soul type of experience, and that kind of carried throughout my childhood, and now it's hitting me in adulthood. So with that being said, I just knew that I kind of saw the world really outside of the bubble that it is, and really socialized.

with people to a different type of extent than most people really do. And so I'm living in the world on the outside a lot and noticing, you know, why do people do this and why do they respond like that? And it's little things that my mom would tell me, like even when children were crying or something, she was like, you just never cried. Or sometimes when she pointed behaviors out, she's like, we don't do that here. Or,

Phillip Quinones (03:05.902)
What do we say when we do that? A lot of conditioning, which is a part of psychology, and did it very, very well. And so with that being said, as I got to elementary and middle school age, really started to differentiate myself socially from people. I mostly focused on sports and pursuing basketball to try to get to the collegiate and pro level. And so once I focused on that, it was literally...

feeling like I'm in an environment that just doesn't connect with me. And so I would see behaviors and look at situations like, why are people responding like that? Why are people reacting this type of way? Why is this so important to this person? Why are they so emotional about this? And so when I got to high school,

I started to have different type of mentors in different type of fields. And one of my mentors was a leading psychologist in the domestic violence space to be specific. And I ended up working as my first job after the season for basketball.

at a domestic violence agency. a part of that had to be, a part of my curriculum for that was being a part of the group therapy that was mandated by the court. So these people would, these men would come, mostly men, would come and they would have to go through the group therapy program for domestic violence. And so I had to be a part of that because my mentor who was the executive owner of it was

making sure that I knew what I was doing with the people that we were servicing and obviously I did not care for it. I didn't care for it at all. didn't like being there. I didn't like talking about stuff. Typical 17 year old type of things and then I got to college

Phillip Quinones (05:04.702)
And ironically, this again wasn't the path that I really wanted to do. But my second mentor owned a night school in Marietta, Marietta, Georgia, where we service immigrants for F1 visas and we teach them English for ESL and ESOL programs. And so I did that for about six years while I was an undergrad. And with that being said, it exposed me to a lot of cultural differences as well. And finally, I was really good at teaching. Like literally one night he called me

He's like, you substitute basically? And I was like, sure. And once I got up there, it was very natural for me to teach.

So with that being said, when I was doing college at the same time, this wasn't the first thing that I decided to do with my major, getting my undergrad in psychology. What ended up happening was I went pre-med and learned very quickly that I did not have the mind or the connection for any type of biology. It was not there. And I'm very strong in math and science, but it was very disappointing to know that it just did not click. And so then I changed my major to sports.

management and ironically you needed to get three grades above a C.

To get into the major and so you needed an A in sports sports management intro you needed a C or better in sports management intro I got an A and then you needed a C or better in basically a PE class got an A in that class and then for accounting That was a struggling class because of what I was going through at that point in time and it was a class that requires a lot of focus and stuff like that and so I ended up getting a 0.04

Phillip Quinones (06:53.856)
points away from a solid C. So I ended up with a C minus instead of a C. So I emailed the person who looked over the major for sports management and I was like, hey, I got a 0.04 away from having a C, would you still let me into the major? He said no. And I was like, I'm not paying to retake this class. Because at this point in time, I was already two years into college.

Travis White (07:20.116)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (07:20.564)
And so with that being said, went to my student advisor and I was like, hey, look, I have all these credits because I also did dual enrollment in high school. So I got my associate's degree in network communications from DeRoy University. So I came into college in junior on paper. So I was like, I...

Travis White (07:37.788)
Nice.

Phillip Quinones (07:40.558)
already have, I've already been here two years. I don't care what my major is based on plugging in all my classes, what can get me out of here in two years. So she said, da da da, da da da, psychology. And I was like, let's go with that. I don't know what I was gonna do with it. I don't know where it was gonna take me. I didn't have nothing about career fields. I just did it because I wanted to get out of college. So ended up finishing that out. And then,

Travis White (07:49.828)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (08:08.332)
was sitting there going, well, what do I do with this degree? And doing research after I graduated, I sat down with myself and I said, okay, well, what is something that I can do day in and day out?

What is something that I can do that if I wasn't being paid for it, I would still do it. What do I, how successful would it be financially and where can I go with this? And it led me to say, no, I really like listening to people's problems. I really like teaching. I really like talking about things that actually really matter because socially I'm not good at the surface of stuff that most of the world is socializing with.

have always been the person that people come to because I've always had a very mature perspective about a lot of life circumstances. And again, looking through the world, through the outside, helped a lot of people. And noticing how much people really go through when I have those meaningful conversations and noticing that how you could, because when I had a conversation with me,

about something that's really real, but then I would see them be surface of it with other people. just really see like people are really going through a lot. And obviously I had the confidentiality between those people to not say things, but it really made me see the inside of what people's lives really like. And so I was like, well, that is a therapist. And so literally six months after graduating, I applied to three different schools, took the GRE.

Travis White (09:36.638)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (09:44.142)
got into one school online, got into Bailey University online for their social work.

got into Grinnell for clinical counseling and the rest is history. So I've been doing it pretty much for about on and off for about four years now, seeing clients, many different types of clients. And it's, you know, a field and profession where I'm just naturally good at it. I am trusted by my clients. I have high retention with them. I have worked with clients for many years.

on that too. So it's really been nice and entrusted with people's mental health. And I just like to see the progress that people make and the fulfillment that I get knowing that maybe or maybe not, I would have had some influence on that. So that's pretty much how I ended up here.

Travis White (10:34.717)
Yeah, that's actually really cool that you went through a couple different like majors and then just landed on psychology kind of and it all worked out for you. I went through, I think about two majors myself and then I was like, I don't see myself doing this. So I just kept changing. mean, but.

Phillip Quinones (10:43.074)
Yeah, yeah.

Phillip Quinones (10:51.03)
Yeah, and that's the point of going to college is the fact that you can have an opportunity to know where you want to go and try different things. Now, should it be where it costs you that much to figure that out? Absolutely not. But for anybody.

Travis White (11:07.988)
No, yeah.

Phillip Quinones (11:12.126)
It is one of the few things that most people, even in modern times, have different ways to make an income and have a career that is still the number one predictor from having financial success. And would I do it again? Absolutely not knowing what I know now.

But I think in my generation, I am the last, in my opinion, obviously it's an opinion, but I'm one of the last where what we have now in the past five years is not what I had coming out of high school. And the education and exposure that you have now to different.

Travis White (11:47.305)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (11:52.834)
avenues of having a career, they were not there. So yes, I would do it differently. If I have children, would I want them to know what it really is, especially if I'm paying for it or what they really want to do? Yes. I would probably, know, whatever comes in the next 20 years would be so different. So yeah, it's a great opportunity for people to say, hey, I want to go pre-med and then I want to go law and then I want to go.

social science that I want to do theater and then now want to do psychology. So it's a great time for you to figure out what you want to do because life doesn't really prepare you for it.

Travis White (12:32.776)
No, it sure doesn't. Let's dive right into like kind of the mental health side of things. I'd love to know like your personal philosophy on mental health.

Phillip Quinones (12:44.716)
Yeah, so I think my philosophy is something I'm obviously still developing, but I think when people ask me, what does a therapist do? A therapist is a person who processes change. And with that being said, to process change means to have somebody guide you through your ambivalence.

about your thoughts, feelings, and your behaviors. And with that being said, it is also something that is meant to be an improvement. It is not a cure. It is an improvement. It is a way to help you cope.

through the struggles of what life may bring you in different types of circumstances, whether you be born with it or whether it's something that happens throughout your experience as a human being, negatively most of the time, it is to get you to improve that. So if I look at it from a physical standpoint,

When you get an injury, that injury rarely, once you go through, let's say a surgery and you go through PT and you try to get better, it will never be the same. And with that being said, you are given either strength exercises, stretching exercises, flexibility, a routine to manage pain.

Order for you to function. So with that being said, it's no different when it comes to mental health because What has happened to you has happened to you or what you are born with you are born with whether that be a certain I would say moderate to severe personality disorder whether it be some genetic my alcohol syndrome whether it be

Phillip Quinones (14:46.04)
Bipolar whether it be ADHD those are things that you are born with so we can't change those we can only Dyslexia we can only manage them so people need to understand that I help you try to manage this and implement new

Travis White (14:58.324)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (15:06.094)
Ways for you to go about life. So if the circumstances that you were in are Continuing to be in now we can move you forward and say okay, we're improving So I don't like the the term of Healing. I like the fact of saying we're trying to make improvements

Travis White (15:27.454)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (15:27.506)
And so that's what I do. I help people through that through a mental aspect for their life. And I think that's what people need to understand about coming to therapy, whether it be individual, family, or couples.

Travis White (15:42.088)
Yeah, that made me think of something. So I've suffered from moderate to severe anxiety and depression for the past several years. I've just recently started going to like, I wouldn't say like way intense therapy, but once a week, at least for the past few months. And he just made me think of something. My therapist said, he stated that, you know, like we live in a society where it makes it sound like we can't live without struggles. We can't live without,

Phillip Quinones (15:48.59)
Okay.

Travis White (16:12.166)
anxiety and we can't live without depression he's like that's not true and it's pretty much what you said he turned around said like we you need to find ways to cope with it so you can move on with life and learn how to work through those things so i really like

Phillip Quinones (16:23.64)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (16:28.214)
I'm glad you have a really realistic type of therapist. That's the type I am too. I would say that I'm a pretty...

Kind but yet challenging and to the point and straightforward type of therapist as well Obviously, there's a personality Type that I am and then it's also gender influence because this is a female dominated profession So it just comes across a lot differently so I'm glad that you have a therapist to say to you Yeah, you are going to be depressed and I let people know like just like if you were to go to your

your doctor and they have to give you a shot, I'm going to say this is going to hurt. Like it's not pretty, it's not sexy, it's not fun. Like no, it hurts just like if you had to go through again a physical surgery and you had to start from the bottom of not knowing how to move your limbs because your body has went through a trauma.

Travis White (17:19.912)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (17:27.702)
you have to be able to go through pain or do you want to stay the same and not being able to be mobile or functional? So it's realistic to tell clients again, it's an improvement. It's not this glamorous and theatrical and I guess euphoric type of experience. No, it's

something that requires you to really challenge yourself to say, I'm tired of being like this. I'm tired of experiencing these types of things. I need to change. I've tried to do it on my own. Now I need somebody else to do it. I actually can get further by putting in more effort myself because he can, he or she can only work with what I'm giving them. And once you get off the call, you know, once you leave my office, this is up to you.

Travis White (17:58.622)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (18:24.17)
Even if it was physical therapy, I only see you once or depending on the severity twice a week. And sometimes it may not happen consistently as people's lives go about, but you have to do the work on your own. give you the tools to do it on your own. So do you want to make an improvement because it does nothing for me personally.

Travis White (18:47.656)
Yeah. And coming from kind of the side of it where I go to therapy, if you're not ready to make those changes, most of that therapy in my mind is going to be worthless. Like you're not going to get much out of it.

Phillip Quinones (19:00.07)
Yeah, but I think that's the that's a great psychology of the unconscious I think what people don't realize and I do this either with couples or I do this with people in general is Exposed them to the stages of change So how is that something that your therapist has? work with you on

Travis White (19:19.604)
I don't recall that one,

Phillip Quinones (19:21.91)
Okay, so there are five stages of change. It could be changed for any type of change. So it's not mental health specific, it's for anything. So you have pre-contemplation. don't think that I'm thinking about any type of change. There's no worry, I don't see a problem. It's not in mind, it's not in sight. don't think about it. Contemplation is the next stage.

Travis White (19:31.134)
briefing.

Phillip Quinones (19:48.31)
where I'm saying, okay, I think something is going on here. I need to be able to navigate myself and maybe I'm there. So then the

The next stage is the preparation stage. So the preparation stage, okay, I'm ready. I'm kind of going in about it. I think that I really do need to make this change. I need to stop doing this. I need to improve this. I'm tired of kind of feeling this. I'm kind of prepared for that. Then you have the action stage, which is I'm taking the new influence of information and applying that to my life. And most people toggle back in different aspects

the action, the preparation, and the contemplation stage for different things. And then hopefully, which is the point of a therapy most of the time, is getting to the maintenance stage that, okay, the new change that you've implemented, manageable, because I don't want to say positive, because I think that's associated with that there's always going to be a good outcome. No.

The real the realism of it is there is an improvement of where you were. Now you've known like, OK, when this happens, when it does not, if it's going to when it happens, I know how to implement a new skill or know how to manage that thing that's influencing me.

So that's the maintenance stage. And that's usually when, if you get to that point in therapy, depending on how much therapy you want to do, or if you just are long-term type of client where we say, okay, you're good on your own for right now for what you came in for. Now you can do this on your own. And if something new were to come up and come back. So.

Phillip Quinones (21:37.516)
When I talk to clients, share that with them. I don't gatekeep anything. I share a lot of resources with clients, but that five stages for anything in people's life, because let's just say that in regular life, you're really good at finances. Technically, you're in the action stage. You're really good with finances, but you're really bad at dating. So you may be in the pre-contemplation, contemplation stage. You may be really good at...

one-on-one speaking, but you're bad at doing public speaking. You may be really good at, let's think even playing a sport. It's funny when you see different athletes play a different sport, they're like, dang, this is really hard. So it's almost like there's different ways of I'm great in my sport, but if you put me in a different sport, you made me.

Travis White (22:20.884)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (22:32.046)
I don't know, go do Pilates or you make me go do gymnastics. I'm going to look like Bambi, I'm going to be terrible. So it's funny how we have different aspects of our life to look at. Like I'm great over here and I'm in a different stage in life and change with this, but on this hand, I may not be. So I think that's something to share with clients and with people that where the stages of change are you in your journey.

Travis White (22:36.421)
E.

Phillip Quinones (23:01.484)
And that's okay to be in different ones in different aspects of your life. So with your depression and anxiety, you may be in the contemplation preparation stage for your anxiety or sorry for your depression. And then maybe you're in the action stage and maintenance phase in your anxiety. It just depends.

So I like to share that resource with people about asking themselves, where are they or where are other people on the stages of change?

Travis White (23:32.072)
Yeah, that's cool. Let's talk about like the stigma of mental health. Like what do you think the biggest stigma, stigmas are like as far as mental health comes like, like, because there's, there's quite a bit of them.

Phillip Quinones (23:39.736)
Okay.

Phillip Quinones (23:48.578)
Yeah, that's a really good question. My opinion on it is...

people

Phillip Quinones (24:02.136)
don't know what it is. And I think if you don't know what it is, you can only guess what it entails. So as a person who is in the mental health field, I'm glad that there is more exposure and more policies and more influence on acknowledging the work that took a very long time to be acknowledged as a true field of human behavior.

but it's still to the point where people don't know what it is. So people are like, you should go to therapy, especially mental health therapy. You should go to therapy or I think I need therapy. You don't know what it is. And that's why it's a very hard thing to advertise because you can't see it. You can't see it. It's extremely...

hard thing to market even on a business side because I can't really sit there and go, I can't because of HIPAA, I can't really show you that if Travis White was doing the work, what that would be like. I can't show the world therapy and they can't see it because it's subjective. So the results are so different. So your experience and what you come to therapy for

is subjectively different than another person's. So it's not to say like, okay, no matter where you go in the world, if you play basketball, the rules of basketball are the same. You can have a billion dollar arena or you can have a back door, a milk carton in the middle of the street.

Travis White (25:30.601)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (25:53.794)
Basketball is going to be the same. The rules are the same. You can see it. There's an objective score. There's a winning. There's a losing. There's stats. You can't do that in therapy. So I think the biggest stigma is that people don't know what it is. And it's hard to market. It's hard to see what its influence is. Now, the only thing that you can get is people telling you that if they have a good experience,

Travis White (26:14.804)
You

Phillip Quinones (26:23.542)
they advocate for it. But even so, imagine going out with your friends and or yourself doing it and they're like, well, how is therapy? How do you even talk about it? You know, it's, it's a very hard thing to get around. So on top of people not knowing what it is, the stigma around it is

If I can't see it, it doesn't exist. And that is something where...

Travis White (26:53.916)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (27:00.692)
it takes a lot of objectiveness and effort in order to be able to acknowledge that this is what it is. And it's very real. So one of the main things especially was war. That's probably one of the biggest things and probably, you know, one of the most stereotypical extreme and severe types of potential, mental health,

Influence which is having PTSD after war so with having that it took

people having these manic episodes or having these extreme flashbacks or hyperventilating or having seizures or having panic attacks or having anxiety of over momentous or suicidal ideations and attempts and fulfillments in order for people to recognize, this is an alarming rate of these traits happening. What's going on? So

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of interpretation on the outside for you to recognize that there's something on the inside. And so that's the stigma around it in my opinion. It's not the fact that it's for women. It's not the fact that it's,

It's a scam. It's something that like, why am I paying somebody to listen to me?

Phillip Quinones (28:34.644)
It's one of those like you don't you on the consumer side don't know what it is. And then the only time it's really addressed or we question it with curiosity is when there are physical examples and experience by others where we say, at an alarming rate, people are experiencing this. Where does that come from and how do we improve that? That's where we have to.

be able to say to people, it doesn't need to get to that point. It starts with children. It starts with the relationship that brings children into the world. Then it starts with parenting. Then it starts with socialization at school. Then peers. Then at higher institutional levels. Then sports. Then your peers. It starts there. So it's...

I think there's a lot of education now that wasn't there before to help with this stigma, but it's still going to be around for a long time because again, you can't, it's not objective. You can't measure it. It's not tangible to see and have for yourself. So that's to me, the biggest thing.

Travis White (29:47.956)
Yeah, it's and yeah, I agree. That's a huge stigma. Like me going into therapy. It took me years to admit that, you know, I have something wrong. I have a some mental health issues. But once I did like, you know, I was contemplating a little, what do I do about them? And for a while it was like, I don't know, like it's not that I didn't believe in therapy. I didn't know what to expect from a therapist because like you said, it's not talked about. People don't know. And when I got into therapy and

Phillip Quinones (30:03.885)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (30:11.533)
Yeah.

Travis White (30:17.844)
Like realize like, you know, my therapist is actually more of a coach to me to get me through these trials and challenges that I'm facing. Like that changes everything. like, if, people can realize like that's really to a point what a therapist is in a way is to coach you through these things to help you be able to cope. Like it's, it's. Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (30:36.878)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (30:40.696)
No, you're absolutely right about that, Travis. Yeah, it's different roles. I mean, you are...

sometimes appear, sometimes you are a parent.

Travis White (30:50.548)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (30:52.148)
Sometimes you are a coach, sometimes you are an educator, and then sometimes you are an objective therapist, and sometimes you're a professional. And I'm saying that more on the legal side. So there's different facets that this person plays a different role in your life with. And obviously when you have what we call a therapeutic alliance with the client, and you've earned that trust within that bond of two people, because it is a type of relationship,

Travis White (31:05.897)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (31:22.104)
can see how far it takes you. So some days it's like, no, I'm going to be a coach and, and we know where you can go and what you can be doing better. And there are other times where I'm just up here and I'm really listening and validating your experience. some days we're not trying to solve a problem. You just need to be heard and acknowledged. but that's the great thing about the unconscious and going to therapy is that

Travis White (31:40.734)
Good. Good.

Phillip Quinones (31:51.658)
If you come to my office, you want to change something. And that's what people don't realize. Like, why am I here? And people do it when they, like, for example, when you, everything is psychology. So even when you go, when you go stop at a store, that is unconscious. Like there's so much influence of why you went to the store. There's so much influence of why you buy the thing that you buy.

why you say the thing that you say and why you do the thing that you do. There's so much unconscious going on. So Philip didn't call you. I did not call you to come to my office. You came. So that means that even if you don't want to and you're still in that pre-contemplation and contemplation stage of change, you want to change something. And I am, I'm not, I am trained to know.

how to dig about going about that, even if you deny it.

Travis White (32:52.158)
Yeah, you spoke about like wanting to change. think this is a good segment into my next question. What are like some tools that you use to help like your clients like be able to cope with managing mental health issues such as anxiety and depression?

Phillip Quinones (32:57.453)
Okay.

Phillip Quinones (33:09.673)
okay, that's a great question.

Phillip Quinones (33:20.586)
If we were to look at my style of therapy, because every therapist has a different style, I'm eclectic, where it's meaning I draw from different, to me, the best things that could help to call in from different type of orientations. Okay? So with that being said,

Depending on the client and personality, there's a lot that I take into consideration with this person and what they want to get through. My main tools, if you were to say from a professional standpoint, is influential CBT, motivational interviewing, internal family systems, and gestalt therapy. So with those kind of four is what I really kind of

manage with my clients and combine those together. So let's say for example we were taking

Let's take anxiety. So if we were to look at somebody with anxiety, I would start by saying how you speak to yourself really does matter. So a lot of people would say, I have anxiety. That's the wrong way to look at it. The better way to look at it is saying, something makes me anxious. Okay. Well, what is this anxious?

Let's identify how this feels. What is that anxious feeling? Let's not worry about what it is yet. What is this anxious feeling? Where do you experience it? Why do you think you experience it? Now we're saying, okay, well, it's almost kind of like an exposure. This thing is not gonna go away. It's not. Again, it's going to happen. It's going to test you.

Phillip Quinones (35:21.422)
Nobody is saying whatever you're anxious on on a severe level We're trying to get you to be moderate to mild. Okay, so it can still make you feel anxious But we are trying to get you to not have a belief of what anxiety is so I would say the one the number one tool I would use is Really going through the five W's who what when where and why?

What is that for you? And it's different for everybody. It's not the same thing. And then I would sit there and go, okay, I need to get this out of my head. Writing it down is a big deal. There is a reason why when you were growing up, at least probably in our generation in school, using your motor skills and a pencil and paper,

or pen, but mostly pencil growing up in school, to write down what you are learning, you are learning it differently. So it's the same thing when it comes to whatever is causing you to feel whatever it may be, write it down. One, you can bring it to therapy and you won't forget about it so you don't waste your time or waste somebody else's time.

Travis White (36:22.196)
you

Phillip Quinones (36:42.006)
So that way you can remember, okay, on Monday, I don't see my therapist on Friday, on Monday, this happened. Write it down. What was I thinking? What was I feeling? How bad was it for me? What did it make me want to do? Now I can share that. Write it down. The other thing about that is saying there is hope for an improvement of your symptoms.

There is, you are not the first person under the sun to go through this, no matter what it may be. Believe that putting it through, putting yourself through the work, you can be able to manage when this thing happens for yourself and learn about yourself kind of through that process. Because again, it's very specific for

the symptoms that you have and the conditions that you have gone through. that is, those are the tools that I really give clients. And then also being able to tailor how somebody learns. So one of the things that I ask, even when I'm teaching or in therapy, how do you learn?

because some people learn better through kinesthetic learning, not just auditory and visual. So even though we're doing talk therapy, there are different types of therapy. So there's dance therapy, there's somatic therapy, there is music therapy, there's art therapy. There's many different types of therapy, but I don't have to tailor it to what somebody is able to learn and influence by themselves. So for example, if I'm playing with a child,

Travis White (38:05.576)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (38:31.47)
13, 14 years old, I have a ball. Like, and we go play football, we go play basketball, we play soccer, I always have a ball because especially boys, they need things. Once we bond over the thing, I can have as much influence as I want with this person. So that may work for them. So some people are like, we have to talk the whole time. No, if you're on, if you're, if you're kinesthetic,

we're gonna go with something you can do. Writing something, going to do something. If you're a visual learner, I'll pull from cartoons, I'll pull from movies, I'll pull from YouTube videos, whatever it may be. And if you're auditory, okay, let me go find something for you to listen to. Maybe on your phone, you have a voice. Speak to yourself.

Talk to yourself. So basically in ways, I'm trying to get it out of you and put it somewhere that is influenced and impactful in the way that you want to experience. So those are kind of the three things that I kind of give as tools for clients when it comes to their mental health.

Travis White (39:54.324)
That's awesome. And I want to point out that you said something that resonates with me and I honestly just saw it like heard it for the first time. I think it was yesterday. You mentioned to not say I have anxiety and phrase it like I'm anxious about this thing. And like in my mind, it says vice versa. I have anxiety. It almost defines me.

Phillip Quinones (40:07.159)
Okay.

Phillip Quinones (40:16.034)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (40:23.309)
Yeah.

Travis White (40:24.422)
So yeah, I love that you brought that up.

Phillip Quinones (40:30.538)
Absolutely. And only a part of you has anxiety too. Not all of you has anxiety because there are some things that don't make you anxious. There are some things that don't traumatize you. There are some things that don't depress you. That is the key sometimes to getting people to feel like that.

Travis White (40:41.725)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (40:54.73)
Even though you may have these overwhelming negative feelings and have different severity levels of those feelings, there are times, places, with people and circumstances and environments and experiences where you did not have that. So let's explore why you think that is. And depending on the severity, some people do need medication in order to help with that. But

with most people would mount a moderate.

Phillip Quinones (41:29.742)
There are times when you're not feeling like that. I have, I think we're men, I would say for myself, like most men would get anxious going up to a girl. Palms are sweaty, heart is racing. You don't want to get rejected. You're not breathing right. You're tensed up. You're getting anxious talking to a girl.

I don't get anxious talking to my mom. I don't get anxious talking to my female friends. I don't get anxious talking to my female teachers. Like it is that setting in a romantic setting that makes you anxious. So isolating that saying that makes me anxious. I don't have anxiety all over about everything. So don't, not to say that you're victimizing yourself, but know that you may think that your perspective

Travis White (41:57.0)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (42:22.76)
on the feeling matters. So let's put it that way. So yeah, I feel anxious. I feel depressed. I'm having an episode right now, but I don't suffer from this. And even if I do, there are ways to manage that.

Travis White (42:45.716)
And have you ever had like a...

an experience where like therapy wasn't working for someone just out of curiosity like what do tell those people?

Phillip Quinones (42:56.51)
that's a really good question.

Hmm.

Phillip Quinones (43:10.882)
That's a really good question.

Travis White (43:16.926)
Sorry, I kind of put you on the spot with that one.

Phillip Quinones (43:19.022)
No, that's actually a really good question. I think that's something that's not talked about sometimes. I think...

Phillip Quinones (43:28.716)
Again.

Depend okay, I think there's a lot coming to mind. There are two things that are kind of coming to mind. One is

what type of therapists you have. And with my friends or peers or people that are contemplating going to therapy, I kind of always ask them to screen your therapist in two ways. One is, what is their orientation? Because again, I have different orientations compared to somebody else. Where like, for example, I don't mean to stereotype.

not a stereotype, but women are better at emotional recognition with human beings. think we can say that cross-culturally, that that is their gift to the world as a human being. With that being said, that's not always what a client needs to have this, know, cuddling, nurturing type of feeling about something. So...

their orientation, which we would call more person centered, or you can do more emotional processing therapy. that influence to where the client wants to be and go may not be working with them. So some people go, therapy doesn't work because my therapist really doesn't ask me questions or she kind of just lets me come to the table. That is a type of therapy.

Phillip Quinones (45:01.228)
depending on the type of symptom, think more that's that help with what we call adjustment disorders. Like it's kind of service level. I kind of been dealing with on my own, but it's not the end of the world. That type of person centered orientation is helpful for that. But if you are dealing with a lot of

moderate to severe type of things, you may be the therapist that is more challenging, that is more like holding you accountable. That is more, again, that coach towards you. And that person and their personality may not be working for you, which is why evidently in evidence and research, that is why the therapeutic alliance with your therapist, not the, the

the clinical side, not the DSM, not to be able to diagnosis, none of that, 50 % of treatment outcome, and I think it's more, is the relationship you have with the therapist. So if therapy is not working, it's probably the therapist, because everything that we learn objectively, whether you're a LPC, a psychologist, psychiatrist,

Travis White (46:09.458)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (46:22.862)
social worker or a marriage family therapist, all of our theories, orientations and tools are the same. They're the same in every single book is the same book you read. Every diagnosis is the same diagnosis that I have. So what does that entail? It means that I have to be able for Philip to connect with my client.

And I tell that to people as well, especially newcomers, that these people do not come to want to learn about the ins and outs of CBT, DBT. They come because they say my therapist, Philip, that's all they know. They don't know shit about what I learned. They only want to have saying my therapist, Philip, just like you have a, a doctor that you go to.

Travis White (47:09.065)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (47:16.578)
You have no idea what they studied in med school for over 10 years. You only care because they are good person. You had a good experience. They're honest with you. And on the other side, they help heal you. So I think if therapy doesn't work with a client, it mostly have to do with that not being the right fit. But then again, go ahead and try.

Travis White (47:19.058)
Mm-mm. Yeah.

Travis White (47:37.352)
Yeah, yeah, I have friends up, go, no, I was gonna say I have friends that say that they've had to go through like five or six therapists before they find the correct one. And they're like, did you have that experience? I'm like, no, I lucked out and got it on my first try. Like, I don't know how but.

Phillip Quinones (47:45.836)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Right. No, that's another problem with this field. Again, the ends and mouths. So one of the projects that I'm working on is creating an app where you utilize AI technology and AI self-learning.

in order for you to become your own therapist. That is a long-term project that I want to accomplish. And one of the pitches with that, when it comes to what I want that app to do, are the statistics about how hard it is to find a therapist. and I'll run down the numbers. The first time you see a therapist, to get somebody to come back is less than a 40 % chance.

Travis White (48:20.777)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (48:43.905)
If you get somebody to come back the second time, it moves up to about 60%. If you get somebody to come back the third time, it is usually they have an 80 % chance of sticking with you. So with that being said,

It's challenging because you can't go on psychology today and read a bio of a therapist and go, that's the one you don't know. So it's a, it's a shitty circumstance that people have to be in because it's like, it's not the fact that therapy doesn't work. It's the fact of you haven't find the right person to do that. And the process of finding that person.

Travis White (49:11.774)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (49:30.132)
it diminishes your motivation. It really does. It takes a lot for me to go to talk about things. again, depending on how long you've been trying to do it, I got to repeat the same thing. I got to speak to a new person about a new problem. And so it's unfortunate that that's the process it has to be. But I want to be able to create a tool that

Travis White (49:32.498)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (49:54.74)
expedites that process and kind of solves that problem because there are too many people, one in eight in the world, that have a mental health issue with that process being so tedious that we can't attend to the issues that our clients want to solve. And yes, it's something that we have to encourage, but I think that's a really good question of why

Travis White (50:13.203)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (50:22.734)
It's hard if therapy doesn't work out for people because it's really about finding the right therapist.

Travis White (50:28.766)
Yeah, I think a tool like that would be spectacular. I think that'd be really cool to implement AI that way.

Phillip Quinones (50:36.746)
yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying even for myself. I have my own therapist too. Because again, I'm a human being. I have my own issues. So I have my own therapist too. And luckily mine was a referral. But again, obviously being on this side, I know what type of therapist that I was looking for. And I'm not, I wasn't looking for the cuddly and emotional. I know what I want to talk about. Again, stages of change. I'm in that.

Travis White (50:39.689)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (51:03.052)
preparation, action stage, I know I want to be better. I have no problem telling and being vulnerable. So I need somebody to challenge me. So because the person that referred me knows me, I was able to do that. So I kind of got lucky with that. But I know as a regular consumer, it's extremely tedious and frustrating and takes up a lot of time. But I just want people to be encouraged to keep going and finding that person. But also,

Travis White (51:04.904)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (51:32.002)
teaching therapists not to to just be a person like you be you like Philip you show who Philip is if Philip is the nonchalant cool if he's if you have a therapist that's high and energy cool like you have to be yourself in order for people to want to come back or stick with you

Travis White (51:54.642)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (51:59.828)
So, you know, it's on both sides.

Travis White (52:04.436)
Yeah, I totally agree. See, I have a few more things that I'd love to touch base with on. Like one of them is...

Phillip Quinones (52:11.341)
Yeah.

Travis White (52:15.924)
Sorry, I lost.

Travis White (52:21.596)
Alright, so how can like loved ones support, you know, other loved ones that are struggling with like mental health issues?

Phillip Quinones (52:31.278)
Can you repeat the question one more time,

Travis White (52:33.032)
Let me rephrase it. Like if you... So I, you know, suffer from mental health issues, like how can my loved ones, you know, turn around and be able to support me?

Phillip Quinones (52:48.088)
Mm.

Travis White (52:51.838)
Cause I get, run into this a lot, like with other people, like not knowing how to support somebody that suffers from a mental health issue. Cause they like, they don't know how to act. They don't know what to do. They don't know what to say. Cause it's like, sometimes it's like, okay, well, you know, it's a touchy subject. It's like, no, if you ask me the question, like I'll tell you like flat out, like I'll be vulnerable with you, especially if I trust you.

Phillip Quinones (53:00.088)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (53:16.877)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (53:27.15)
That's a question.

Phillip Quinones (53:31.554)
I think part of that is recognizing.

Phillip Quinones (53:38.572)
that people can only help you if you ask for it. There are some people that can recognize this. again, okay, so now the answers kind of come to me in a more concise way.

Travis White (53:44.18)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (53:55.872)
As somebody who wants to be helped, you have to be able to say, again, this is something they can't see. It's not physical, it's not tangible. It's not that if I have this cup and it breaks that you see the shattered pieces. They don't know that.

Travis White (54:07.593)
Mm-hmm.

Travis White (54:17.566)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (54:22.078)
So, and they may see the behaviors, you're over sleeping, you're overeating, you're not socializing, you're drinking, you're on drugs, you're in your room all the time, you are gambling, you are overspending, you're over dangerous, you're sleeping with too many people in a short amount of time, whatever the case may be. They may see the behaviors.

Travis White (54:51.037)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (54:52.738)
but the feelings behind those, can't see it. And so what I, how I explain to clients very simply, and I'm getting back to the main, the bread and butter of the question is feelings, feelings and emotions people use synonymously, but to make it super simple for people, feelings are on the inside, emotions are on the outside.

Travis White (54:56.681)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (55:18.862)
Simple put, I don't care if you're the president of the United States and you're my client. I don't care if you're a four year old child of my client. I would explain it that simply. So people see your emotions and could do their best at the level of awareness that they have in order to address those emotions. But it is your responsibility as the individual

to give them that vulnerability and to let them know what is happening with your feelings because they can't see it. So some people put themselves in a disadvantage. And again, when they come to me, I have to restructure their thinking about stuff because I'm like,

Travis White (55:51.198)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (56:06.956)
My mom doesn't care about my mental health. I'm like, well, did you give her opportunity to care about your mental health? She asked me how you were doing. You didn't answer.

My friends don't really care about me, but they're inviting you out to places. They're saying you can come over whenever they can. They're not denying your text messages, your phone calls. You are the one that has to reach out and almost condition them to say, hey, I go through this. Hey, I'm going through that. I need support in this type of way. And all you have to do is set it up for yourself. You set it up to say, hey, look, I'll take Philip, for example.

During the winter, my level was my feelings of depression come in a little bit more during the winter. So I think that's a normal human thing too, I think objectively. And so I let people know that I'm not avoiding you, it's just the fact of it's this thing. There are other times where I may be going through something with

another person and I say, hey, I need you to check up on me or I need you to drive me out of the house. I don't care what we do. I need you to do that. So I put measures in place to let people be able to support me. So when I ask clients, this is actually a really good question that I asked my client the other day. I asked her, what are you doing that is preventing somebody from loving you?

And that again is an accountability type of question. Because you are making it harder to love you. They're ready to love you. But or support you or be there for you. You're making it hard.

Travis White (57:58.707)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (58:05.954)
because I can list the examples that you disclosed to me in therapy that are the opportunity for you to do that. Because most people, if they care about you, would take time to care about you.

and just don't trust the feeling that you have that that is,

Phillip Quinones (58:29.47)
the God and truth. No, your feeling is valid, but that doesn't mean that it's helpful. And it doesn't mean that it's good for what you are trying to do. So you have to push yourself as the person to put yourself in a position to be supported. That's all I can do. That's all Philip can do. That's all anybody can do is to put yourself in the position. So I also reinforce people to say, hey, if you are in this situation,

call or text me. I am here and I mean that but as another person who is again in their level of self-awareness of mental health may not know what you may be going through you have to let them know.

Travis White (59:15.314)
Yeah. You made me think a lot about a lot with that question. Like I've, I've seen things from a kind of a different perspective now, like that I didn't have just, just that question. Like, you know, there's times where it's like, you know, I didn't think that when you said you asked your client, what are you doing to prevent people from pretty much helping you? Yeah. I've never thought of it that way. I'm like, you know, cause I've always thought of like, you know, I know people recognize stuff.

Phillip Quinones (59:22.766)
Okay, what's that perspective?

Phillip Quinones (59:38.68)
Yeah.

Travis White (59:45.394)
And some of them recognize it enough or close enough to be like, you know what? What, what the hell's going on? Like, need to do something like this behavior is not right. This isn't you. But then those other people like thinking coming from that question, it's like, well, maybe I am doing something or maybe they just don't fully understand. They see the behavior, but they don't recognize it as anything. So they don't know how to interact with me. Like, so that's, that's actually really.

Phillip Quinones (59:57.71)
Right.

Travis White (01:00:15.732)
I'm actually jotting that down to take it in. So thank you.

Phillip Quinones (01:00:17.954)
Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm glad that question can help. Yeah. And that's what I said, your therapist depending on his, that's a challenging question for people to do. And I said, it's almost, you have to pay circumstances for people because you have to, you want them to recognize where you are, but you're not also understanding this is a two way street. You have to recognize where they're coming from. And so

Travis White (01:00:26.942)
Yeah.

Travis White (01:00:37.992)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:00:44.622)
That may be, like for example, I have a client, a 17 or 18 year old client, he has ADHD and he's probably, hasn't been tested for autism, but those are very closely related. And he was struggling in school, which again, school is a major stressor for people with ADHD. It's stress in general, but it's extremely hard. Again, focus and retention and all those type of things. And so I have to say to him, you know, he's wanting to catch up on grades. And I say, look,

Travis White (01:00:53.374)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:01:13.422)
These, I was like, you have to let people know what you're going through. And it's okay. Letting your teacher who was paid after taxes, less than $40,000 a year, managing 150, maybe a little bit less, less than 130 students for 180 days of their life. That has to deal with not just students, but grades.

doing tests, paperwork, their colleagues, politics, their personal life to want to serve you. They are literally sacrificing their time to want to be there for you. I don't know. I don't know any other person outside of maybe your own family that is willing to do that. They are giving their time and getting shit paid to care for you, but you also have to let them know what you're going through. Hey,

Travis White (01:02:04.681)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:02:10.57)
I'm depressed about this. Hey, I get anxious when this happens. Hey, I have ADHD. I need more time. Can you help me? They are not going to deny that. They are going to do everything in their power to try to support you. So I had to get him thinking about that and no one behold, after a couple of weeks and I said, okay, let's follow up. Did you talk to that teacher? What did they do for you?

He said, or he should, and she'd give me extra time. They said that I can go to the library here. They found me another classmate that they compare me with that's better in this subject. And then now finally I passed the class. But sometimes it's helping that other person see that other people are ready to help you. But sometimes you are the person that is preventing that from happening.

Travis White (01:03:02.258)
Yeah. Yeah, it's,

Phillip Quinones (01:03:04.908)
And you can do that from that aspect platonically and especially romantically.

Travis White (01:03:11.998)
Yeah, luckily for me, my wife's always been really good to like, if I'm doing something or my behavior changes, she's really good to like point it out. Like, you know what, you're doing this, like what's going on? There's something going on in your mind. Like you need to communicate that.

Phillip Quinones (01:03:26.53)
Yeah, yeah, I'm learning that myself. I really am. So I'm glad that you have that support from your wife.

Travis White (01:03:34.416)
I think I have like two more questions that were really weighing on my mind. One of them, I know there's HIPAA, but is it possible for you to like share a journey where you saw a client make significant progress?

Phillip Quinones (01:03:42.796)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (01:03:50.27)
yeah, yeah that's a lot. let me think of my more long-term clients.

Phillip Quinones (01:04:00.558)
Yeah, so I had a woman, 30, I think she's 36 now, 36. If you were to objectively diagnose it, which again, I'm not really a diagnostic person, again, because I work for a place also that does insurance that's different. But me myself, I don't really care about your diagnosis. I'm not trying to put you in a box.

Travis White (01:04:22.068)
Mm-hmm.

Travis White (01:04:29.043)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (01:04:29.646)
I'm not, but objectively based on this conversation, I would say that she did have complex trauma. She was sexually assaulted. She has been in domestic violence situations. She has MDD, which is major depressive disorder. And then I would say she would have more kind of moderate anxiety. She was having struggles in her marriage.

She also has ADHD and I would also say that she had...

Phillip Quinones (01:05:08.482)
Let's just kind of stick with that. And a lot of suicidal aviations and attempts. So let's do that. So with that being said.

Travis White (01:05:09.724)
Okay.

Phillip Quinones (01:05:21.758)
we had to look at

Phillip Quinones (01:05:27.62)
and terrible family structure, especially with wood. Well, actually, I would say a lot of male figures, mostly with mom, too. So it's just a lot, you know. And that's OK. With that being said, she we have to look at.

Parts. So again, I configure different type of orientations. I don't stick to one orientation. So one of the helpful things that I did was break down these two parts of this. There is, I'll say myself for example, there's Philip and there's PQ. And the question I ask her often is who is showing up? Is it Philip?

or is it PQ? There are qualities and both are fine for their circumstances.

Phillip Quinones (01:06:28.312)
Phillip is, and I would do this, well I think I could do this with her. Let's just say that her name was Phillip. Phillip is this really demonic and really cruel and self-inflicted pain and traumatized person, defensive to the most defensive that you can ever be, and aggressive and...

just intense. That was her. If her name was Philip PQ, it was that person that was hurt and, and, and wants to be vulnerable.

that wants to connect with her husband and her children, that wants to just be held, that wants to just be heard and wants to just be acknowledged and wants to just be naked and metaphorically, and that wants to be sweet and wants to be kind. And so they both have what you need. They are not judged based on good or bad, right or wrong.

or perfect or imperfect. They both have a job. And it really took her from saying, even in this conversation with me, hey, we had a great kickoff. Sometimes it's clients, again, when you find that person and when I find that client, we just kick it off. pretty, like literally the first session, we just had that. It was sarcasm.

Travis White (01:07:58.174)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:08:08.45)
Bullshitting, laughing at trauma, challenging. Again, kind of like a dog. You're biting me? Bro, you are soft. You know, in my own interpretation, metaphorically. Like, I'm here, I hear you. That's what you've been through, okay? Straight face, and that's what it was. And you know, she was like, I did this with my, again, when I'm kind of doing that.

Travis White (01:08:17.267)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:08:35.968)
intake, would say she would say like, you know, tell me about your past experiences with therapy because that matters too. And then tell me about your other therapist. And she was like, you know, I had a therapist that when I opened to her about these problems, she was so, I think I don't believe in it personally, but this, what's the word? Like when you feel other people's emotions extremely impact. She was like, she was so such an impact about everything I said.

Travis White (01:08:59.796)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:09:04.366)
She became the client and so she's like I can't I couldn't deal with her like that type of way because I'm talking I'm here for me So I'm like, okay, my best fear and that's why I asked the questions as good as she asked me So when she would tell me about all these traumas, I'll be like, okay You went through that and that's real and it's Fucked up. I guys speak about I person therapy to like it's fun. She's like, you know what? I'm so glad you said that was fucked up. I'm like, yeah

Travis White (01:09:22.59)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:09:33.634)
Cause it was. So that may be an acknowledgement of her feelings. So my point is, is that I also had the same conversations when she would show up as Philip, which was basically just say this very intense defense, defense of her traumatized person. When she would show up in conversations, I'm not talking to Philip right now.

Travis White (01:09:45.48)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:09:55.864)
Philip wants to take control of this situation right now and this conversation. And that's not the person I want to talk to. So we can end this conversation or you can take a moment and bring out PQ if her name was PQ because I like talking to her. I want to know what she went through with those terrible things. I want to know how she feels. I want to know the things that brought her to that space. I want to know.

the inner self of who PQ was. That's who I wanna talk to because at that point in time, I'm not getting into this disagreeableness and this discourse with you because that's not healing you, that's keeping you still defensive. I'm not gonna let you victimize yourself. She was very high conscientious too. Depends on if you're not very high conscientious and not neurotic, but.

Travis White (01:10:37.118)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:10:50.476)
Because she was high conscientiousness, very intelligent, makes sense, again, showed up to therapy knowing what she went through, can look at herself objectively, I was able to get the response of...

Okay, you went through that, let's acknowledge it and let's move on. What is that? What do you think that's preventing you from going or, or what is that influencing on your life and how do you manage that for yourself? So it really was helpful because when she would be assigned some type of support or we will be in therapy or situations, I would say, well, who showed up in that conversation? Who showed up?

And you start to associate, okay, if I'm being a dick and traumatized and defensive and anxious and depressed and all these type of things, that's probably what we would say are bad side ways. The other person is how do I manage that for myself and put the person that is soft and vulnerable and sweet and that wants to show up? How do we put that back in front of us?

Some days this person would win, some days the other person would win. But who is driving that boat and driving that car most of the time? And that was very helpful for her.

and helpful for a lot of her relationships. And medication was very helpful, but that type of orientation drawing from an IIFS and internal family systems perspective was very helpful for her. And other than that, I actually have not even seen her this year. So we were together for a year and change. I haven't seen her this year. And that really kind of means that...

Phillip Quinones (01:12:37.908)
she's managing well because other than that we would see at the beginning we received that as twice a week because again that's how severe it was but then eventually dropped down to one so i think again she's right now in that that action and maintenance stage in her life where i think most things are okay for her so that was a great experience for her and improvement for her and i you know i think long term again it's one of those people that will be a long-term client

And also I think she was given tools to be able to cope with where she is depressed, when she's depressed and when she's feeling anxious. And again, when she reacts instead of responds, it's very helpful for clients to make therapy simple for themselves because I'm not here to...

make me feel like what I know is so important and so highly favorable. No, the point is to fucking help you. I don't say anything in therapy to help myself. Everything is to help you and to give you tools. So that is the most progressive person that I've had in my career so far with the most complexity in their mental health.

Travis White (01:13:44.905)
Yeah.

Travis White (01:13:59.732)
That's really cool. I love to see that progress, like to hear about it.

Phillip Quinones (01:14:07.372)
Yeah, so I'm happy for him.

Travis White (01:14:10.456)
And one last question. Why would you say to someone that is seeking therapy but has not quite like got to that point where they're getting it yet?

Phillip Quinones (01:14:13.827)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (01:14:25.806)
What they haven't gotten to point out say that last part

Travis White (01:14:28.646)
Yeah, so so they're so they're seeking therapy like they want they they know they want it but they're not quite. They haven't like I'm trying to think of in my mind how like let me word it this way so there's a time where like I knew like I had these issues that I needed to deal with.

And I knew I needed therapy, but it was like...

Travis White (01:15:02.14)
I didn't know how, like, I'm trying to think of, there was a question on here. Hold on just a second. I know it's in my mind. I just can't think of how to word it. Give me one second here.

Phillip Quinones (01:15:11.096)
Okay, no, it's all good, take your time. Yeah.

Travis White (01:15:27.568)
Okay, here's a better way to word it. If someone is hesitant, is about seeking help, how would you encourage them?

Phillip Quinones (01:15:38.114)
Let people know you need help. I think that kind of gets back to your question of, you know, how can people who support me or ask to be supported? I think you have to ask for help. And yeah.

Travis White (01:15:47.315)
Yeah.

Travis White (01:15:51.828)
Pretty much just opening up and being vulnerable.

Phillip Quinones (01:15:56.886)
Yeah, and knowing that...

You.

Living is feeling. And I have to understand that for myself too, because I just naturally am not as, again, synonymous with feeling. I'm not a negatively feeling type of person, or I guess even the opposite, very euphoric feeling type of person, where I really crave having a lot of feelings about things. But I would also say,

Travis White (01:16:06.324)
Mm-hmm.

Travis White (01:16:21.575)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:16:35.106)
that living in this human experience despite what you believe is feeling. And if you believe that you are not getting the most out of your feelings, there is something that your mind or your body or life is trying to tell you you need to change.

I really like this perspective from Jim Carrey when he was being interviewed and he said, depression is your body telling you and your mind telling you that it's tired of being this character. And again, I think that's a very playful thing because he's a very, you know, obviously amazing actor, but obviously a distressed human being objectively.

Travis White (01:17:18.58)
you

Phillip Quinones (01:17:28.942)
That's what it is. You're tired of being this character. You're tired of feeling this way. You're tired of these same occurrences producing the same response. You need to be able to say to yourself, okay, what am I doing that's not working? And then what helps me that I'm doing less of that I need to do more of? And part of that may be,

I do not speak to people about the problem. And my social support system is very vital because we are connective human beings, despite being in an individualistic culture in America. We are supposed to be connective towards each other. And...

If you are the one preventing that, then you need to be able to reach out to people. And there most of the time for an average person, there is somebody that you can reach out to to say, I need help. I want to be walk with.

Travis White (01:18:33.736)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:18:40.018)
as I go through this journey. And these are the things that I want you to be aware of in order to support me. It's not just going to magically happen like that. People can't see this.

So reach out to those people that you know. I don't care if you didn't talk. I don't care if they were your friend in high school. That was another thing with another client. He was like, I can connect with people that I used to talk to that again, when I was going through life, we kind of cut off and I'm kind of anxious about reaching back out to them. But I was like, well, what again, this is again, strategizing the conversation. What would happen if you didn't reach out to them?

Well, I would continue to still feel the same way and feel like I don't have social support. OK, so how long do you want that to continue for yourself? And then what it would look like if you did, even if you magically got rejected from this person, this person they want to talk to you, you weren't talking to them anyway.

Travis White (01:19:46.195)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (01:19:47.118)
So the only way for you to go, the only direction for you to go is up. You're already at the bottom when it comes to reaching out. So you might as well try it to see where it goes. And probably 95 % of the time, if they were your friend before and there was no bad blood, they're probably going to be there for you. So again, it's when people come to my office, there is something that they want to change.

Travis White (01:19:52.692)
Mm-hmm.

Phillip Quinones (01:20:14.062)
And 95 % of the time, if you are just unaware of something, you know what you need to do. You know what you need to do. You just need help being able to have somebody walk with you while you do. And you may tell me first, but I'm also going to tell you that I'm not going to, can't manage your life in one hour a week. You need to be able to, I need to leave you with people.

Travis White (01:20:20.084)
Mm-hmm.

Travis White (01:20:37.757)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (01:20:41.57)
that are able to help you with that. And you are going to have to talk to them because it is a rule of life that closed mouths do not get fed. So you need to be able to let them know, need help.

Travis White (01:20:55.632)
Awesome. Yeah, I agree. And it's coming from a point where like I had to learn how to be vulnerable. I had to learn how to reach out and let people know what I was feeling and what I needed from them. Is there any last words of advice or anything you'd like to say that we didn't maybe cover?

Phillip Quinones (01:21:19.766)
Yeah, I would say,

we think.

Phillip Quinones (01:21:35.98)
I will say that it's a journey. Again, it's not a quick fix. You are a human being, depending on your life, you have had a lot of life.

that you've lived and if you are at a point where it is not producing something beneficial for you, then you need to be able to make a change. There's a lot of resources out there for you to not have an excuse to be able to attend for that for yourself. And so from the mild people that just have adjustment disorders and little conflicts or little stressors here in life to the severe

people, there are tools and ways for you to get the help that you need. You have to take the initiative to do it. And if you've been contemplating about taking that, then it's probably something that you need to do for yourself.

I think when it comes to mental health.

Phillip Quinones (01:22:41.08)
Part of that is your way of self-applicating for yourself and nobody can do that for you. so, nobody has ever been you, nobody is you, and nobody will ever be you. So you can only make the best experience out of your circumstances that you put yourself in.

And so I would like people to under to understand that. And there are plenty of people with good hearts that are trained very well and that are very empathetic and compassionate that want to help you. There are people in life that want to support you and there is a way for you to have the best experience of being a human being and have the best feelings that you can have. You really can't. Like there are a lot of things that

people think makes them so unique or what they go through, but there's other things that people have gone into the same thing a lot of it. I don't care if it's PTSD, addiction, issues in romantic relationships, divorce, childhood traumas, natural disasters. Like there's nothing new under the sun. Somebody has improved with it and so can you, for sure.

Travis White (01:24:05.242)
Awesome. Thank you. That was perfect. Is there any place that you want the like, how can listeners find you? Like, is there any place like a social media or like a website they can go or anything like that?

Phillip Quinones (01:24:23.766)
Yeah, so I'm starting my social media page for PQ consulting, coaching, PQ coaching and consulting. It's on Instagram.

And then I will be able to create my website, pqcoachingandconsulting.com. So if people just want to ask questions and reach out, I'll be happy to do that. I have some of my courses and some of my books that I'll be publishing soon. So I'll be able to have that for people. So those are some of the resources that I want to provide. But again, I want to continue having great conversations through different platforms to, again, just talk about the topic and get around this stigma and being able to

help people, whether it's a really good question or a different type of insight, I want to be able to do that. So I think this has really been great for myself and hopefully for your viewers.

Travis White (01:25:15.154)
yeah, I know personally it was really insightful for me. So if it was insightful for me, I really think that it will be insightful for some of the viewers too. So.

Phillip Quinones (01:25:19.832)
Yeah.

Phillip Quinones (01:25:25.004)
Yeah, well, I appreciate you having me on, Travis. You had great questions, and I think you're doing a great thing right now.

Travis White (01:25:31.208)
Thank you. And thank you all for listening. Follow us at overcome pod on Instagram and as well as on YouTube. And if you like the show, please, please share like and do all that stuff to help get us out there until next time.