Overcome - A Mental Health Podcast

How Mentorship Saved My Mental Health | Walter Dusseldorp

• Travis White • Episode 12

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In this episode of Overcome, host Travis White speaks with Walter Dusseldorp, a mentor and coach, about the importance of mental health awareness and personal growth. Walter shares his journey from childhood challenges in Holland to becoming a successful mentor in America. He emphasizes the significance of understanding one's 'why', the role of mentorship, and the necessity of addressing mental health issues head-on. The conversation also covers the five pillars of wellness, the importance of resilience, and the need for emotional intelligence in leadership. Walter provides practical advice on how to navigate mental health challenges and build a supportive network, ultimately encouraging listeners to find their purpose and passion in life.

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Travis White (00:01.225)
Hello and welcome to Overcome, a mental health podcast. A safe place for you to tell your stories. I'm very excited for today's guest, Walter Dusseldorp, the Dutch mentor. Russell, I'm getting your names, Walter, how are you doing today?

Walter Dusseldorp (00:21.452)
I'm doing great Travis. Thank you for inviting me onto your podcast and talking about a very important topic.

Travis White (00:27.807)
Yeah, I apologize. I want to read your first name and your last name together. And today Walter has some great stuff to talk to us about, and I just want him to have the microphone over to him and let him get started.

Walter Dusseldorp (00:33.559)
It's all good.

Walter Dusseldorp (00:45.134)
Well, thank you, Travis. Um, you know, it's always says where should I get started? Well, the answer is usually, you know, at the beginning. Uh, so I, I really was interested in your podcast because, you uh, and the topic of mental health, because this is something that is, uh, we all need to be sensitive about. Although I've never been diagnosed nor do I have an, uh, you know, something that I say, listen, I, am, uh, you know, struggling with my mental health. It is something that in my journey, and I'll tell you to my journey in a few minutes.

That I, as I became more self aware, I came more self aware about my beginnings and what it is, what it was like to be a child growing up in Holland and the obstacles that I faced along the way and how I used to be zillions in order to overcome some of these obstacles. But even more importantly, how I came across the right people in different phases of my life that helped me understand my why and the reasons behind my

attitude early on in life and how I made adjustments to those in order to live a full healthy life. And today as a coach and as a mentor of emerging leaders, I always start at the why and really get people to take a step back and look at it from an input, not only their reality, but how they are perceived by others. And often we come across some sensitive issues and mental health is one of those areas that people

try to shortcut a walk around, a walk away from, while in order to grow as a professional, as an individual, as a father, as a brother, as an uncle, you need to address these things head on and not shy away from them. And as an adult now, just recently I learned about my own children having some struggles with anxiety for a variety of reasons.

So I'd be happy to dive into my story if you're ready for that or if you have any couple of questions before that.

Travis White (02:43.241)
No, go ahead and dive right into your story.

Walter Dusseldorp (02:45.07)
All right. So again, I've written about my story in several book publications. You can find them on Amazon. But and I use that in the concept of how I became a business leader and how I became a coach or mentor. But it's always a little bit better to kind of put some color to it. So the Dutch mentor is not by by accident. I was born and raised in Holland. I came to America when I was 18 years old. But really, to go back to the early part of my life is that we were typical city kids.

uh, you know, growing up in around Delft, rather than, um, and then moved to a very small farmer's town in the Eastern side of the country, uh, where all of a sudden we were looked at people who spoke proper Dutch in a community where they had strong dialects, uh, where we did not fit in. And, I certainly did not feel that I fit in well. And that was during my formative years from, know, from the ages of, you know, first, you know, three, four years old, all the way to 12, 13, before you had to transition into the city.

So early on I had to face difficulties in life and I had to make choices. And early on my coping mechanisms was not about effectively communicating with people or understanding what, and when to walk away from the things, but was really talking with my true aggression. And that could be aggression as poking holes into my tire to get attention from my father to try and answer questions with my fist, albeit my sisters or people who I went to school with.

Of course, I had no clue what I was doing at that point in time. And it wasn't until later on that I started asking myself the question, why was that? And although I had two very, very loving parents and both had passed since, you know, my father and mother were children of World War II. They were teenagers during World War II. My father was the youngest of 14 kids and they literally lost everything.

Although my mother was openly able to communicate about her experiences, her traumatic experiences growing up in Utrecht, my father did not. it really was something that today I can reflect back upon that and try to walk my own issues, but how it was for him to have grown up in World War II and lost literally everything, his father, his mother, the riches of the family itself, everybody.

Walter Dusseldorp (05:08.59)
except for a couple of aunts and uncles who left Holland shortly after the war, moved to America, to Canada, New Zealand, and Australia. So a lot of his emotional intelligence was subdued or nonexistent while he was a brilliant engineer, savant-like, but often misunderstood. And my conflict with him, and obviously today I can reflect about it, I'm more like him than not.

But because of that, there was a lot of conflict that was created early in childhood, all the way to my 16th, 17th year that, you know, when I love things, I did great. When I didn't love them, I kind of sidestep them. And the result of all of that was actually me moving to America when I was 18 years old. And because I wanted to get away from it all. And I wanted to get away from my father who was a perfectionist, who did not understand me, a mom who was very caring, very loving and

Travis White (05:49.387)
Thanks.

Walter Dusseldorp (06:07.31)
Obviously I heard by being the only son of moving to America and being far away. Now we're talking about 1988. If you wanted to make a phone call, you had to get two rolls of quarters, go to a local pay phone, drop in $7.50 in quarters, and it would be able to have a two minute conversation with your parents. So I came to a country of the language that I did not speak in culture I was not familiar with. And really was introduced, you know,

to my second traumatic experience, you know, quickly needing to grow up and living in a house with 20 or 30 other guys from around the world with all different kinds of cultures mixed up, hoping that I was going to come to a camp that I could work at and learn a better way of living, I entered another phase of conflict.

and it was really about, you know, the strongest survive. It's about how much you can drink, how much you can smoke, how much wheat you can consume. All the things that we're trying to get away from and, know, for my poor and bad traumatic experiences in Holland, I fell into that same trap and it took me weeks, in order to be able to weeks, months actually to be able to, to kind of extricate myself from that and look at a bigger picture and that, and that was really the first time I met somebody.

who was, who was going to, who was going to help me, at least I thought it was going to help me, which of course at that time was a girl. and, and, and, and to that experience with her, instead of learning to deal with my own emotions and learning to understand what, life was about, I really learned that, you know, that you're, know, addiction is often a byproduct of, of some mental health struggles and growing up, instead of drinking and smoking, yeah, I used sex as an, as an

Travis White (07:40.308)
you

Walter Dusseldorp (07:57.293)
Another way of overcoming stressors, but all for the wrong reasons, right? We did it together. It was all consensual, but it was all done for the wrong reason. wasn't for love. It was truly for lust. And of course the end result of lust is pain because that never lasts. So it truly is the struggles of growing up and really never understanding on the why behind it. wasn't until 1989 I met Father Anthony Moore. He was a priest, a Franciscan priest.

who worked at the Family Foundation where lots of kids from New York City came up to learn to deal with their own struggles around recovery for alcoholism, drugs and all kinds of other addictions. That was my first really intervention and mentor, somebody I looked up to, not for religious reasons, but for spiritual reasons and spiritual guidance. Somebody was actually able to have a conversation and understand me. And through that,

process of learning. And that's when I, you know, part of the stories that I got married and I couldn't work for the six months, I was able to volunteer at a local organization. And during that process, I met Father Anthony Moore, and I learned how to live with the 12 steps. And of course, the first step of the 12 step process is about admitting that your life is becoming manageable. It was really the first time, yeah, I went there with the thought process, I'm there to help other kids out and share my story.

Travis White (09:09.643)
Thanks.

Walter Dusseldorp (09:25.272)
But really, but I learned a lot about myself is by understanding that all the things I was doing was all, you know, all to cover our pain, that had existed for quite some time. And it is because of that process that I went to and finally having somebody who's been guiding light, including some of the, you know, the owners of the facility, Tony, senior and junior, that I was able to see the forest through the tree.

And I made a commitment at that point in time that I stopped drinking stuff, you know, I didn't be I was never really into drugs, but just a little weed that I would smoke on the side. But really live a more pure life and really going getting on, you know, on the path of recovery. And interesting enough, initially, it was, you know, trying to relate, right? Compare myself to somebody else is they were talking about these drugs and the drug addicts. Well, that's not me. I'm not in lane. And I'm not homeless. I

I work hard, made decent money. was going through the struggle, but it wasn't until my second mentor and gentleman by the name of Denny took me to an AA meeting up in Binghamton, New York. And he said, shut up, sit down, relate, don't compare. And I think those are the two most important words I've ever heard in my life. It was that moment when I learned to relate to people, rather than compare myself to somebody else, that I had a true awakening.

And that awakening allowed me to see the world in a different perspective. And it made me understand that there are dry drunks and there are wet drugs. You don't need to consume alcohol or drugs to be an asshole and part of my friends or live, you know, live in a way that, you know, whatever you do is good for you, not for somebody else. And in that process of learning, I really got started to, you know, the discovery process of self and, and, and

You know, interesting enough, you know, inside of me, I had awakened and lying that I always wanted to help people out. Also because of another traumatic experience that I had as a 14 year old, you know, when it came across an accident and Holland Boyer and farmer died in my hands, I had this helpless feeling that I never wanted to be in a position again, that I couldn't help or heal somebody. Although my initial drive towards to become a doctor, but that got, you know, you know, that got sidetracked because of all the other issues I just talked about when I came to America.

Walter Dusseldorp (11:46.343)
You know, I, my eyes were opened by, Hey, listen, maybe I need to go into emergency service or become a fireman or become an EMT, become a paramedic. I can help other people out. And that's really when I went on that path and that path, you know, being married and having three kids, all these things really helped form and shape me. But it wasn't again until the next mentor stepped into, into my life, that really helped me open up my life and my eyes, not only in a personal way, but also in a professional.

And that's really so, you know, the key is to be open to these things and not to be resistant to outside forces to help you see, so to speak, the light. And this was the opportunity to not only become an individual provider of care as a paramedic, but to become a leader of others. And that's where I found the next joy of leadership. You can really have an impact on not only one person, but through other people, you can have an impact on many.

And it is to his guidance and his support and his providing the opportunity. But my attitude still was a little bit, listen, if I need to step over your body in order to get where I need to go, I'm willing to do that. But that doesn't get you very far. Right? So through that process of getting a deeper understanding of, know, why I feel why I think like this and being able to, to, really mitigate that to being more outward thinking, be more caring and really learning about emotional intelligence.

being far more important than just having sympathy for somebody, feeling sorry for somebody, but then feeling for somebody. And in that process, I learn and grow. And that is really what helped me get into a trajectory to what I'm doing today. I'll pause here to see if you have any questions on the first part of that story.

Travis White (13:38.475)
Just good stuff. Like, I really loved the bit where you were talking about relate and don't compare. Because I can take that into my personal life quite a bit because I often find myself struggling with comparing myself to others way too much. And I'm sure the listeners can do the same thing.

Walter Dusseldorp (14:03.63)
It is an interesting point. And it was just work with two clients this week about, you know, they were getting ready to for an interview for significant positions and they were more worried about their competitors than they were worried about, you know, how they were going. They said, listen, you can't compare yourself to anybody. You are unique in this aspect. You were offered an opportunity to come for an interview. Now you need to worry about how you present yourself to them.

and bring all the desirable attributes and the differentiators. because the other things don't really matter, right? It's beyond your control. You know, the problem is that if I started comparing myself to somebody, a negative brain will talk yourself out of every opportunity that's ever presented to you. Right? So that's where I, the next big lesson I learned in my life is that the brain actually has two parts, not only two hemispheres left and the right side.

But it's really made of two thirds negative brain and one third positive brain. And, and we, once you really get that deeper understanding that being happy or being positive is a bit of a struggle because the negative brain is that much stronger. The negative brain loves, you know, these negative events that helps us over that we experience in life. So by learning to promote our positive brain, we can actually have a lot of influence on how we look at the world.

and how we experience the day. you know, part of the readings that I require for all my student mentees to do is to live, you know, at control, right, living in the now, or looking at the positive quotation is another really good way to learning about the brain chemistry and how we are put together, how we function on a day to day basis. It is a simple exercise that I recommend is like.

Travis White (15:44.619)
Okay.

Walter Dusseldorp (15:57.571)
When you get up in the morning before you swing your, you know, your feet onto the, onto the floor, grab a notepad or your phone and, and, and write down or, you know, or talk, you know, speak into the microphone, five words of gratitude to teach your brain to start the day off the right way. And that is something that again, a lesson that I learned along the way. And by adopting that and repeating that throughout the day itself, you're more likely to stay on the positive side of the track than the negative.

The problem is this, it is like a muscle, right? If we don't exercise this muscle every single day, it will lose tone, right? It will shrink. And before you know it, the negative brain will take over again. So it's very easy to fall into the trap of the negative brain. Now, luckily for me, I have never relapsed. After I made the decision, I don't drink anymore. I don't do any drugs anymore. And I'm on a path of recovery using the 12 step program.

Travis White (16:42.389)
you

Travis White (16:53.675)
Thank you.

Walter Dusseldorp (16:56.256)
I actively use that probably for the first 20 years of my life. never thought about relapse, never wanted to drink because I understood for all the right reasons why I would be better off not doing these things. And I have zero regret of that, right? It is, but I understand today that if you work with other alcoholics and drug addicts or other people who are addicts, it is a struggle. It's a day-to-day struggle.

Travis White (17:04.939)
Thank

Walter Dusseldorp (17:21.294)
for some people and that therefore often we look at it, you know, the three types of people who enter the room is those people who come in and stay in those people who come in once don't see what they're looking for because they are comparing themselves and leave and have a life of struggle. And then you have people come and go for the rest of their lives. And often when they don't come back, they have died. And that is something that we need to keep in the back of our mind is that if we look at our day to day life, it is a requirement.

to be able to really appreciate the five pillars of our foundation. And the five pillars of our foundation is about mental wellness, spiritual wellness, physical wellness, relationship wellness, and financial wellness. It is those five pillars that are in a constant state of motion, and it requires us to take care of them. And if we ignore any one of them, we can be in trouble. But to guarantee it, we ignore two out of the five.

Travis White (17:54.133)
Thanks.

Walter Dusseldorp (18:18.574)
Well, listen, how long can you sit on a stable stool with three legs on it? Not very long, right? So you can be financially secure. You can be physically in great shape. You can even have a good relationship. But if you mentally and spiritually basket case, it too will, you know, the rest of it will also fall apart. So the sooner we can recognize that it is not, you know, what we see that matters, but it is what we feel that matters.

Travis White (18:24.139)
you.

Travis White (18:36.773)
Yeah.

Travis White (18:46.699)
Thanks.

Walter Dusseldorp (18:48.492)
And that's really where I've learned over time. listen, I can tell you another five things have happened in my life. From severe spinal injuries and nine injuries, nine surgeries to losing the feeling in my feet, to all kinds of divorces, all of these things, I survived them all and I thrived through them because I always led with a positive mind.

You know, I remind it myself that there's always somebody else who's worse off than I am. And I surround myself with people were able to help me not with people who wanted to commiserate in my misery. And that's another message that is critically important that you have to surround yourself with the right people. And it was in 2012, I met, my, my, mentor for life, Mark, who really helped me from a both a personal and professional way.

Travis White (19:38.609)
Thank

Walter Dusseldorp (19:43.247)
of setting myself up for success. And without a single question, it has helped me become the leader I am today, the coach and mentor I am today. It has made me a better husband, a better father, a better uncle. And I'm tremendously grateful for all of these people that came into my life. Of course, I'm grateful that I had the ability to be able to open my mind and experience their insights, even though they came from vastly different.

walks of life. I've you know, he was Mormon. have another mentor, Mike, who's in Southern Baptist Christian. I had in Catholic, you know, priest. So it is really how we need to open up our own minds and our own hearts to people who might be able to share things with you that allow you to really work on those five pillars and set yourself up for success.

Travis White (20:22.283)
Thank you.

Travis White (20:35.851)
And have you personally ever struggled with one of those five pillars?

Walter Dusseldorp (20:42.454)
Yes, I think I struggle with all of them at some point. I will say that I've been very, very lucky that I have never experienced depression or to mental health crisis. But I will say that I have experienced two short periods that as I went to a divorce, well, before I went to a divorce, once I found out that things were not going well in my marriage and things happened that should not have happened in a marriage, I actually had a couple of panic attacks. So those were

somewhat quasi mental and mental and physical attacks that, now I was lucky enough that I knew somebody who has experienced them, was able to pick up the phone and have a conversation and talk my way through it. Of course, as a paramedic, I've treated many people in mental health crises. So I can relate to that, although I had a little taste of it. because of that, and which ended up leading to making a decision for my own mental health.

that I needed to go to a divorce that allowed me to take steps to recovery. And there's steps to recovery. Again, it's another area that men tend to be more weak about than women is that I had to admit that I could not do this alone. And I had to go see a counselor for a period of time to help me through this difficult period of time to ask tough questions, to hold myself accountable, to be in a safe space, to talk about deeply vulnerable issues.

And that is something that I highly promote. Even in my mentorship of today, when I come across people who have issues with relationships over children, I strongly encourage people to go to the appropriate mental health expert in order to seek that help, in order to be able to learn to manage those feelings before they can even expect to continue to grow as leaders.

Travis White (22:12.881)
you

Travis White (22:33.291)
Yeah, I totally agree with you there. I had no idea when I was going through my mental health stuff myself, there was a time where I didn't really believe in therapy. I was like, you know, this isn't for me. How can I fully open up to somebody? And when I did it and actually learned different techniques to get me through the day, was like, this is amazing. So I highly recommend it for anybody who's struggling.

Walter Dusseldorp (23:02.85)
Yeah, I think the message that we need to give to people is this, right? Is that the first, second, third or fourth therapist might not be right for you. And that's okay. But don't stop looking for the person that works, that helps you through your crisis. Right? It's no different than listening if somebody gets put on blood pressure medication. Often it takes two or three medication adjustments to get the right one. If you happen to be depressed and you need to go on to a medication,

Often it's not the first medication you take is going to be the right one. So again, the message is don't give up because the first experience wasn't exactly what you expected it to be. Right? Keep trying until you find the right person that you can relate to, right? That can relate to you. Did you find you have a certain level of chemistry with it? Of course, at the same token, don't search until you find the perfect person because that's not out there either.

Travis White (23:53.131)
Mm-hmm.

thing is.

Walter Dusseldorp (23:58.641)
right. But it is, and, and, know, being with a therapist allows you to become vulnerable. Right. It is no different than I teach in my leadership class is that the best leaders out there know when to be vulnerable. They talk about their journey, their journeys and their experiences and their pitfalls. And that's all good, not bad.

Travis White (24:11.243)
Thank

Travis White (24:25.675)
So thinking back to the audience and stuff, what's a good way for them to actually learn how to balance the five pillars in their own life?

Walter Dusseldorp (24:36.674)
Yeah, so that's a great question, right? So the first thing I would suggest people to do is to write down the five pillars. so literally write down on a piece of paper, know, mental health, spiritual wellness, physical wellness, relationship wellness, or financial wellness, and make an assessment on a scale one to 10 on how well you are dealing with each one of those pillars.

Let's say if it is your spiritual is at the fore while your financial relationship and all of them are seven on eight, well, then you need to work on your spiritual wellness and really go on a discovery process and say, listen, you know, why is this not, why am I not fulfilled? What is missing here? But you have to ask these tough questions of yourself. And then, of course, try to find answers by reading articles, to meeting with other people, sometimes through therapy.

But it is by writing these things down and to assess on a scale of one to 10 on how well you're doing. And if you find a deficiency in any one of them, then put a countermeasure into place, take an action. And the thing is you cannot just talk about an action. You have to actually measure your action. one, those people who learn to adopt a measurement and scorecard will find recovery much quicker.

And I'll usually give a simple example is that often people feel down on themselves because they're not physically fit. I, we all tend to struggle and I'll use myself as an example. Right. They said, I would love to go to the gym three times a week and work out for 20 to 30 minutes. But this, I've had a lot of obstacles faced me. My neck is fused. My lower back is fused. I can't feel my right foot or my left toes. have all these, you these injuries. Well, I can come up with a hundred excuses why never going to the gym.

Travis White (26:10.187)
Thanks.

Travis White (26:15.647)
Bye.

Travis White (26:29.823)
Thank you.

Walter Dusseldorp (26:30.446)
But that doesn't make me healthier, right? So instead of using excuses, I need to take accountability. And so the first action I need to take is to say on paper, you know, physical, I score myself at a four and my desire is to be at an eight. And the action I'm going to take is going to the gym or home gym and exercise three times a week for 15 minutes.

But you say, Oh, Walter said that, you know, CDC recommends three times a week for 30 minutes. Well, start with something that's realistic. It's more realistic. I will do three times a week for 15 minutes. And once I do that, well, I can always increase the 20, 25, 30 minutes, right? but the key thing, a key thing is, that the document is on my calendar today. I have three appointments on my calendar. So it's an, it's a reminder, visual reminder that I made a deal with myself on Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

to exercise and on my scorecard, I need to write down a red, yellow, or green. Did I exercise? If I didn't do it, it's a red. If I kind of sort of did it, it's a yellow. If I did it well, it was a green. And I need to make a promise to myself when I see more yellows and reds, I need to ask myself, why is that? take a countermeasure to it. And again, these are natural weaknesses of people. We love to make excuses. Well, I was too cold, too wet. I didn't feel like I had a cough. My neck hurt, my back hurts.

A meeting came up, but none of that is going to help you strengthen that pillar of physical health. But if you don't write it and if you don't score it, hey, listen, you'll go down that continuous spiral of not doing the things you know are good for you. So again, a scorecard by writing down what it is that you're going to do. And that could be, need to drink more water. Well, maybe you say, I'm going to drink six glasses. So every day you should measure, did I have six glasses of water?

day. I want to pray, I want to go to meetings, I want to do this, write it down, you're more likely to follow through on it. Because your brain has a truth center to it. Right in our brains, we have a little man or woman or whatever you want to call it. That when you say yes, but it's really know that little voice in your head was they say, do you just lied? That's a squarely a no. Right. And that's what we need to learn to listen to. And to be able to follow, follow that voice, follow that

Walter Dusseldorp (28:55.65)
that guidance of truth, because otherwise we're just doing ourselves a great disfavor by not reaching our goals and lying to ourselves.

Travis White (29:07.654)
stuff. I love it.

Travis White (29:11.823)
What's like with all the setbacks that you have faced in your in your life, like that's one of the biggest lessons that you've that you've learned from those.

Walter Dusseldorp (29:22.094)
Well, I think two things is a reminder that there's always somebody is worse off than you are. So for example, in June of last year, I was traveling and I always couldn't feel my fingertips. Now I already had back surgery 12 months before that was, was debilitating and very difficult for me to overcome. had multiple surgeries. The first one didn't go well. I had to get a second one corrected and it became septic. went through this whirlwind of all kinds of emotions because of that.

finding on a path of recovery and I was gonna have like, why can't I feel my fingers? And long story short, know, once I recognized that something was wrong and I got care, I almost became a quadriplegic. And almost in a way that I was on the operating table and I lost feelings below my neck twice for 20 minutes. And thank God through the golden hands of a surgeon, they were able to fix me and fuse my neck.

And I, all of the symptoms have resolved, but you think that is hard. Well, I get a follow-up report as saying, Hey, listen, everything looks good. But by the way, there's a little spot on your, on your throat. You should get checked out. You know, first of the guy, could it be? They always find something is benign. And my doctor kept reminding me to the city. better go back and get something checked out. They said it could be, it could be something that's growing in your neck. So they're okay. So I can ultrasound done.

course, three days later, I find out I have an golf ball sized tumor in my neck that is sitting over my parathyroid gland, which now I have to get a biopsy and the biopsy now shows it's inconclusive, it could be cancerous. So now I get to schedule myself for another surgery, which I had on January 6th, I went ahead, you know, I had it removed out of my throat. And then you have to wait another seven days to find out if it was cancerous or not cancerous. Now knock on wood, it was non-cancerous.

you know, 14 days later, because they were able to remove half and leave the other half. I'm saying, listen, I don't need to take medication. My thyroid stops working. I have to take centroid replacement therapy anyhow. So all of these things is like, it's like somebody beating you down. It's like, how many more, how many times can I get beat up in order to, know, the key to the, to this is that always remember there's somebody else who's worse off than you. Try to use a positive and a growth mindset. Listen, I can overcome this, right?

Walter Dusseldorp (31:48.363)
I am resilient. This is just a bump in the road. There's better things ahead of me. I can overcome. So all of these setbacks have cost me, friends have cost me, money has cost me, business has cost me. But the thing is that none of that matters because it's all yesterday. I can't live in yesterday. What we did five minutes ago was done. I can never get that time back.

I can never change what was said. So learning to really live in the now, which of course a little forward looking into the future is something that is something that is really, really important. And then I would recommend every single person to write a Mark Twain quote in very large letters somewhere in the house. you're struggling with this, 92 % of the things we're worried about never happen.

But that 90 % of 92 % of the things you were, but if you allow yourself to worry about it, it robs you of quality of life. So we really have to remember that we cannot be held back by the things that could potentially happen or the what is. But sometimes we have to face consequences. That's at 8 % and we just need to learn to overcome. But if we are stuck in worrying about what everybody else thinks of you, mean, all the things that are happening, you can't live a full life.

And the lesson that I learned out of this is this job is that what is one thing we know 100 % sure that will be true in 125 years from

Travis White (33:26.475)
One thing, you know, I honestly, coming from me, I'm a religious person, so I'd say God exists.

Walter Dusseldorp (33:38.703)
I, in 125 years now, we are all dead. Except for, except for maybe a couple of turtles. We are guaranteed that we are all dead. At best we're going to be remembered with a picture on the wall. And that's unlikely. Now a digital age, you might be a picture inside of somebody's computer.

Travis White (33:42.287)
That's true. Except for the fruit,

Travis White (34:00.213)
So somebody's computer that's not working anymore.

Walter Dusseldorp (34:03.39)
as a, as a distant memory. So think about all the things that you worried about on how you're going to say to what you're going to do or what job you want to have and, or all that stuff on the end of the day does not matter at all.

Travis White (34:05.472)
Mm-hmm.

Travis White (34:16.427)
It doesn't make sense to worry about. Yeah.

Walter Dusseldorp (34:20.258)
But we do this all day long. So we need to learn to worry less and to live our lives to a fuller extent. And that is something that is really, really important to live on going forward. Now, one of my mentors, Mike Versina, and I'll mention his name because he wrote a great book called, you know, Leading with Your Upper Brain. It's available on Amazon. Highly recommend anybody out there to go pick a copy up.

Cause it's very, important. So one of the things in both leadership and live, we have to understand that we, our brain, like I said, is positive and negative, but also has an upper level and a lower level to it. How we tend to be very reactive to the things that happen around us. That's what we call lower brain thinking. Those are not the best thought centers. These are fight for flight. Something happens, we react to it and

And often the outcomes, because we react to something is really not as good as if we only had taken a sliver of time to process the information, put it into perspective, and then to properly respond, which is what we call an upper brain action. And that is really something that you need to take the heart as well. So that helps you overcome mental wellness and spiritual wellness and physical wellness, relationship wellness, financial health,

wellness. again, I would highly recommend anybody listen to this, write down three letters and keep them in a prominent location. times R equals O. And always think about that events are going to happen in your life. There's nothing you can do about it. People are going to die. People are going to be born. You're to have excellence. You're to have success. You're going to have failures. Not much you can do about that. There will be outcomes of those events.

But in order to get the outcomes of those events to be more favorable to you, we need to learn to respond to them by then to react to them. Our tendency is to react and the outcomes are less than desirable. Learning to slow things down to process these things through responding to that, we will have a better grasp on the outcome. And that goes right back to those five pillars.

Walter Dusseldorp (36:47.982)
pillars is crumbling and you're reacting to that, whatever the decisions you come up with at that part of the time, they often cost more or less effective. If you would only take the time to take a bit of self inventory and to try to understand the why behind you are not feeling well or you're not doing well or you're financially, mentally, physically, it doesn't make a difference. You are more likely to seek the help that's available to you.

to counsel, to therapy, to a financial advisor, and recover from that quicker than if you try to do it all on your own. So E plus R equals O is a very powerful equation that we should keep in mind to all phases of life.

Travis White (37:31.851)
Yeah, it's very interesting that you brought that up about reacting. How as people we we tend to react over everything. And I spent a whole therapy session with my therapist talking about when walking me through how to overcome that and actually take a step back and take a breath and be like, you know, like, how am I going to react to this? Because it makes sense the way I'm about ready to do it. Or is it even worth it?

Walter Dusseldorp (38:00.972)
Yeah, listen, having worked in emergency services all of my life, sadly, too many of my friends have committed suicide. And there's a physical difference between a man and a woman committing suicide. Often men are very reactive, know, they spur of the moment, they grab a gun, shoot themselves, you know, cut themselves, do whatever. And it is often detrimental. Women tend to be more, not that they're more thoughtful, but they tend to think more, right? They respond to things more.

And they do things not to the point of actually ending their lives, but more likely to ask for help, right? Even if it's not asking for help in the right way. so one of the things that, and again, I cannot personally relate to, I've never thought of suicide in any which way, form or manner for myself, but having been exposed to it so many times as a care provider, responding to people who committed suicide, or successfully or unsuccessfully, or suddenly see people in my close family,

and friend network, it is a real thing. And again, it is our role as leaders, our role as partners, as husbands and brothers and sisters. Often people are acting out, reacting out in a visual way on Facebook or Instagram by posting things that we need to be more in tune by. Well, again, most of us are so absorbed in our own BS.

that we are not really in tune with what others are asking us or telling us that until after something has happened, we go back to the page and say, my God, the person was screaming out for help for the last week or two weeks. And we ignored it. I still say that suicide is one of the most selfless acts in the world. think it should not be celebrated in any which way, or shape. think it's...

is very detrimental for the people who are left behind and exceptionally selfish for the person who does that. But it is our role as leaders to care deeper for the people that we lead in our businesses or the people that we care for in our own communities. So we need to be more in tune what is taking place, which is preventative, not reactive.

Travis White (40:22.655)
Yeah, this kind of goes back to something you said before. And this I want to I want to speak for just a second on those people that are feeling those suicidal tendencies. And you mentioned something about surrounding yourself with the right people. And I've personally struggled with suicidal thoughts quite a bit, like throughout the years. But once I figured out that I can surround myself with the right people, I know who to reach out to.

during those times that are really dark for me so I can get a helping hand.

Walter Dusseldorp (40:58.222)
Listen, Alcoholics Anonymous has, they will tell you that it is people, places and things that will ruin your life, but can also save you. If you're an alcoholic or drug addict or sex addict or somebody who's depressed, don't go hang out where you are commiserating with other people in the same circumstances. Surround yourself with people who can lift you up, who can listen to you.

Travis White (41:21.643)
Mm-hmm.

Walter Dusseldorp (41:27.202)
who can help you see the light, who can help you overcome. But people, places, and things are critically important in all phases of recovery.

Travis White (41:42.315)
Yeah, I agree. I want to go back to being resilient and to somebody who's just trying to learn that concept of resilience and trying to be more resilient themselves. What advice do you have for them? How do they even start to develop that mindset?

Walter Dusseldorp (42:06.712)
Yeah, so I think resilient is an EQ, right? An emotional intelligence attribute. So the first thing we need to recognize is that an EQ is like a muscle. This is not something I can pick up a book and read once and be really good at for the rest of my life and call myself resilient. This is something that needs to be exercised continuously. So resilient just means to me,

That it is not that I'm ignoring my feelings, but I'm willing to do the work to help me overcome those feelings and to get past those feelings. Right. And if you surround yourself with the right people in the right place and the right things, you're more likely to recover from those. So again, if you only do it in the time of crisis, that's probably not the best time to practice these things. Right. So it's best done when you are feeling well and learning how to grow this muscle.

And in other words, understand where the resources are that you need during your moment of crisis that will help you recover from it quicker. And resilient is about getting through the tough, the lows, and then learn to thrive again. And it's not about denying that you have gone through a low. It's not even being ignorant that there will be a low in front of you sometimes.

But it is utilizing the resources that are available to you to be able to get through these moments. And we call these valleys of despair, right? In business and, you know, we, and there's so many, lots of people have experienced many leaders are very, you know, are not very happy leading. And then said, so why is that? You were a wonderful, high performing frontline performer and we promoted you into supervisor manager, director level role, but how come you're not thriving? Well,

Listen, those people go to a valley of despair. go from doing things to now being leading, but they don't know how to do these things. It is only through becoming vulnerable, admitting that I'm not capable, and seeking help, assistance, that you can then apply certain practices that can build resiliency, that allows you to learn to thrive in a new circumstance.

Walter Dusseldorp (44:29.838)
Now, none of these things, these are all habits and behaviors that need to be changed. Well, I got news for you. I don't care if you read a book or go to a conference, your habits and behaviors are not changing overnight. That takes 90 to 120 days of repetitive action in order for you to become a new, to create a new normal. And that is again, our human nature is that, and our attention span is so short that we, if I can't get what I want within nine days, I'm not doing it again.

And he said, Walter, what are you talking about? I well, I'll give you a prime example. We make all these promises to ourselves on December 31st, the new year starting. And one of those is what? We all go to the gym and say, this year is the year that I'm going to work out three days a week, 30 minutes. I'm going to build muscle. I'm going to be healthy living. Well, you go out and buy a membership for the year. The guy who owns the gym loves you. And then you go to the gym three times the first week, two times the second week, one time the third week.

Travis White (45:01.835)
Yeah.

Travis White (45:08.025)
and

Travis White (45:21.909)
But.

Walter Dusseldorp (45:25.836)
And then you go back sporadic for the rest of the year. But a guy who owns a gym loves you because he gets you on the hook. course, the bodybuilders love you because now by February you're leaving them alone and they have all the access to all of the equipment again. So people actually rely on your inability to have a behavior that is sustainable in order to be able to make money. Right? So we, the sooner we recognize that if you want to establish new normals,

You are required to do something on a daily basis when it's extended period of time. And I'll give you a simple exercise to do. If I asked you to write your first name and last name with your dominant hand, what does that feel like Travis do it right now? What does that feel like? Tell me your feelings as you write it.

Travis White (46:14.005)
To me, writing my first and last name, it just feels natural. Like it's easy to do. Like I don't have to think about it as just second nature. Yeah, for the most part.

Walter Dusseldorp (46:19.79)
You really have to think about it, right? Does it look the same? All right, now put the pencil into your non-dominant hand and tell me what that feels like.

Travis White (46:34.941)
I can do it, but it's definitely a lot harder. My handwriting's pretty sloppy. I actually have to think about it more. I'm actually surprised I'm doing a little bit better than I expected.

Walter Dusseldorp (46:51.382)
Okay. So if I say, Travis, from this point forward, you are never allowed to write with your dominant hand again, only with your non-dominant hand. And you say, okay, Walter, I agree with that. I'll accept that when I walk away, what is the human nature? What are you going to do?

Travis White (47:08.191)
human nature would just go be going right back to my dominant hand without thinking, yeah.

Walter Dusseldorp (47:11.936)
Okay. So, so we do this all of the time as bosses, we walk away and then only until something falls apart, I go back and said, Hey, Travis, are you writing with your non-dominant? No, no, Well, that's on me. Right. So in order to change, do you think you can become an extra? Did you can learn to write perfectly with both hands?

Travis White (47:32.681)
I personally think I could. I put like, it'd probably take me at least a few months, but not more. Just cause I'd have to, every time I grow up with my non-dolfinate hand, I'd have to sit and think about it. It would take me longer to write.

Walter Dusseldorp (47:34.816)
How long do you think it would take you to do that?

Walter Dusseldorp (47:47.119)
So the goal would be about 15 minutes a day for the next 90 to 120 days to become an amidextrous. If you would not hold yourself to that challenge and measure your success on a daily basis, what's the likelihood that you'll make it to a new normal that you will become amidextrous?

Travis White (48:04.573)
very slimed down if I don't hold myself accountable.

Walter Dusseldorp (48:05.942)
Yeah, exactly. And because it's not a burning platform, there's no money against it. So again, the sooner we recognize how difficult it is to adopt new behaviors, that if we are truly serious about it, that we need to establish what we call a burning platform. And this is where financial wellness comes into place, is that many people have credit card bills that far exceed their abilities to pay.

And it's like the spiral, you know, that is out of control. that if you, because you never can pay off a credit card, once you, once you started, unless you have, you know, unless you make enough to be able to pay off the principal and the interest itself. So a lot of people need to be put on the path of recovery. Well, you know, you have to take drastic actions and often needs to be measured on a daily basis in order to be able to, get to that point that you can actually get control of your finances. Right. It is very, very difficult to do. It's not that.

it can be done. It is just very difficult to do. and often you cannot do it alone, you have to get what we call an accountability partner. So a bunch of my clients, although I have great conversations with them, but the primary driver that they my clients is because they need them, they need somebody to hold them accountable. And because they pay me, they would take it a lot more serious than if I would volunteer my time, because then they will skip week after week after week. Right.

So that really is no different than therapist, right? And somebody who's a friend who gives you good advice. The friend who gives you good advice, you only go to on an as needed basis, but if you have to pay somebody, you'll be there.

And you actually take the advice more serious too.

Travis White (49:46.514)
And then.

Travis White (49:50.219)
And then speaking of like the, we're kind of the subject of developing habits there for a second. I actually recently spoke to a guy that he works in neurology and he said that the brain is a creature of habit. And if we don't train it and rewire it, we're just going to go back to what the brain knows. And that kind of falls all into this, like, you know, how we're basically, there's two thirds of our brains negative part.

So we have to train it to be positive.

Walter Dusseldorp (50:21.688)
Yeah. Yeah. And that is very difficult to do. Right. So when I work my clients, I have a nine dot exercise. I can't do it here because we don't have a blackboard to play on, it is, you know, I encourage people of, well, you have nine dots, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, right. Just looks like a box itself. And the exercise is to connect all of the dots with four straight lines, but you cannot go over any one dot more than once. And people can do it.

Right. have all kinds of things. and the people who do it, they usually cheat, but go into Google and ask, look for an answer. And the reason why that is because our brain is wired to stay within the box. Right. If we see a problem that's like an, and a key lock, we go get the key that we know has opened that lock before. That's our natural normal behavior. So that's why addiction is so difficult because we tend to, if we don't, you know,

establish new habits and behaviors, we have the tendency to fall right back to the people, places, and things that are normal to us. So learning to become resilient, learning to adopt a growth mindset, a positive mindset, all these things require daily work. Now you will be more successful if you measure your daily activities and hold yourself accountable to that. And it's even more important that you get an accountability partner

Travis White (51:43.647)
Thank

Walter Dusseldorp (51:49.615)
who can help you be accountable. And if you are not, if you have yellows and reds, then there needs to be a consequence. You need to hold yourself to that consequence. That could be, you know, donating money to No More Starbucks for you. But there needs to be some meaningfulness behind it. Otherwise, we are creatures of habit. Our brain is. We'll go right back to what we know best, which is not always best for us.

Travis White (52:03.465)
Thank

Travis White (52:10.738)
We

Travis White (52:18.121)
Yeah, that's totally for sure. Like you said, it takes a lot of work. I tend to be a very anxious person. I was in some pretty intense therapy there for a while, basically training my brain, helping train my brain and learn techniques to stop me being so anxious and overreacting. And I would be lying if I said, this is so easy. No, I had to...

Walter Dusseldorp (52:40.536)
Hmm.

Travis White (52:46.325)
I have to sit there and think about things and be intentional like on how I'm reacting so I don't overreact.

Walter Dusseldorp (52:55.682)
Listen, anxiety is an undervalued feeling that many people suffer from. And I think that our society of being connected via computers rather than in real life is not helping matter. And having this 24 hours a day, seven day a week stimulation to our telephones is not helping matter.

Travis White (53:14.477)
not at all.

Walter Dusseldorp (53:22.862)
You know, shying away from spiritual or religion is not helping us. So again, there's a reason why we have a mental health crisis in this country. I think it is all for the obvious that, you know, the family values that we talk about, you know, and having some level of spirituality, you don't even have to be religious for that matter. You know, it's something that we need to go back to. And I think that

We're going through a bit of a transformation in the country today that people are starting to see, at least a segment of the population is starting to see that there is value to these things. But it also causes a tremendous amount of anxiety on the flip side. The anxious over things that will never happen. Mark Twain, 92 % of the things you worry about never happen.

Travis White (54:06.537)
Yeah.

Walter Dusseldorp (54:14.584)
But I can tell you that, but if you don't believe that, it makes no difference.

Travis White (54:14.622)
And I always...

Travis White (54:19.307)
You talk about the spirituality and how it needs to come back and how we're missing some of it. I always tell people one of the things that I like to say is like, we need to build a foundation and build a foundation for me. I built that foundation upon God and somebody else might be just like higher power. Like I just say someone higher than yourself. Like it doesn't matter who or what you believe in, but it helps stabilize you.

Walter Dusseldorp (54:47.436)
Yeah, it is. And then the key is to not judge you or me for what I believe in. Right. I'm supportive to whatever you believe in your sport or whatever I believe in. If it gives me if it gives me peace, if it gives me tranquility, it gives me makes me resilient. Hey, I'm all for it. Right. It is. And it is not again. It goes right back to the saying that I gave you first is that we need to learn to relate to each other, not compare to each other.

Travis White (54:52.299)
Exactly.

Walter Dusseldorp (55:16.012)
Right. It's part of the reason when I teach leaders, have conversations with your team members and talk about the things that you love. Right. What are the six values you hold true? We might be from all different parts of the world, but often out of three or out of six values, three of them, share, you know, spirituality, family, love of animals, maybe a sport. We can relate to these things. And that's where we need to start building true relationships and partnerships on.

Because that, on the end of the day, is going to help us.

Travis White (55:48.969)
I full on agree.

Well, is there anything that we have not talked about that you would like to talk about?

Walter Dusseldorp (55:59.951)
No. So the only thing I would say is a parting word parting words is that, you know, we are all leaders. I don't care if you're a leader of one of your leader of many. We should not shy away from really having a much deeper understanding of self. I always encourage people to go online and go to to look up a TED talk that label, you know, labeled or titled starting with your wife.

It really, you we are have such a tendency to talk about our what and how that we don't take enough time to really understand what makes us tick. And why is that important? Well, 68 % of the workforce today is at or near burnout. 72 % of the people actually love what they do. That's scary. You're to be spent more time away from your family at work. And why only 22 % of you really love what you do.

So you owe it to yourself because you only get one life to live is to really understand your why. What is it that you can do or want to do? So I'll leave you with what I call the four P's. And if you're fortunate enough to connect the four P's, you will live a better life, a better balanced life. So it's always about finding your purpose and passion in your heart.

Connect your true purpose and passion with people and processes where you can have a meaningful outcome. You will find joy in your life again. And the sad truth is that most of us are not connected to our true purpose and passion because we don't even know what that is. No one has never taken the time to raise self-awareness to the point of really understanding what is my true purpose and passion? What is my true differentiating superpower?

So I would encourage people always go on to that journey first. Anybody that is interested, you can go to my website at the Dutchmentor.com. I work with leaders across all industries. This is something you should do for yourself. This is something you should do for the people that you lead. Book a free consultation. We can have a chat about your life, your experiences, and see how we can have a positive impact on you and your team. And if there's an opportunity to collaborate.

Travis White (58:05.536)
Thanks.

Walter Dusseldorp (58:25.696)
and buy into some of the programs that I offer that is great. If not, we will have a nice conversation. Hopefully we take away a couple of things that will better our lives and the way we lead or the way we live life ourselves.

Travis White (58:40.011)
Perfect. And other than your website, do you have any social media that you'd like to guide people to?

Walter Dusseldorp (58:45.518)
Yeah, you can find lots of clips on on YouTube and on Instagram at the Dutch mentor, you can go to Amazon, I've, I think, published like nine or 10 books that you can pick them up, you know, all of my like $10 or less, all of them will add value to your life and different phases of your life, either personal or professional. There's even a little children's book that I strongly encourage people to buy and utilize for their kids.

where they have an opportunity to write about their feelings on a daily basis. And this is not about writing words, this can be just using colors and pictures, but it is exceptionally important as parents, as people, that we start talking about feelings much sooner in life and normalize these things. The sooner you get to really understand your feelings and help them understand how to...

how to work with those things, those, with anxiety or happiness or anything in between, I think the more prosperous, better lives they will live.

Travis White (59:50.845)
Awesome. Well, thank you, Walter, for being on the show. I admire you and your positive mindset. Thank you all to those who listened and you can find us at OvercomPod on Instagram and YouTube. The best thing you can do for us right now is share, like, follow, subscribe, do all the above. And especially the sharing part, like if you feel like what you're hearing, please

please share it with a friend. But thanks again for listening. Until next time.