Overcome - A Mental Health Podcast

Navigate the Noise: Mindset and Mental Health with David McKee

• Travis White | Mental Health Advocate • Episode 41

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In this episode of Overcome: A Mental Health Podcast, host Travis White sits down with David McKee, founder of Another Angle Consulting and author of Navigate the Noise, to explore the powerful connection between mindset and mental health.

David shares his personal journey of growing up in a household affected by mental illness, his struggles with anxiety and trauma, and the turning points that led him to healing. Through years of study in psychology, neuroscience, and mindset coaching, David has developed practical tools to help people overcome limiting beliefs, rewire their brains, and build resilience.

From meditation and visualization to reframing negative thoughts, David explains how small shifts in mindset can create lasting change in mental health and personal growth. He also opens up about working with creatives, executives, and musicians—helping them break through mental blocks and rediscover their potential.

This inspiring conversation highlights the importance of gratitude, self-awareness, and future self-reflection in creating a life filled with clarity, confidence, and purpose.

Whether you’re facing stress, anxiety, or simply looking for ways to strengthen your mental health, David’s insights will help you navigate the noise and step into your best self.

Connect with David McKee and explore his work:

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Hello and welcome to Overcome a Mental Health Podcast. I'm your host, Travis White. This is a place for you to tell your mental health stories. And I'm very excited to be with you here tonight. We are speaking with David McKee. David is the founder of Another Angle Consulting, a global advisory firm dedicated to helping individuals and organizations achieve breakthroughs through the integration of psychology, neuroscience, and mindset coaching. Known for his unique ability to simplify complex concepts, David empowers creatives, professionals, and young adults to overcome mental and emotional barriers, unlocking their true potential. Sounds like we're going to have a great conversation tonight. David, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Travis. This is going to be a lot of fun. It's my pleasure and I'm going to turn the time right over to you and have you start us off with your journey. Sure. So I've got a background in finance and accounting and then moved to music as well as running my own consulting firm, as you mentioned before. But my mental health journey and my experience with mental health really started at a young age. My dad suffered from manic depression and we lived in a very scary household for years. And it's to the point now of when I recall some of these stories, I didn't realize then how bad it was. Luckily I had rose colored glasses and I didn't see all the bad, but it was just one of those that I witnessed my dad try to commit suicide. And then he cheated on my mom. He was a minister in the United Methodist Church in America, sorry, America, New Jersey. And yeah, so he really struggled with that. And for a long time I held this anger and then that affected me because I had this anxiety. always stressed, always not really feeling like, I always felt like something was off. I tell people it's in my stomach. felt like that hitting your stomach feeling way it feels like someone's twisting your stomach. I had that all the time. And I just thought that that was who I was and that that's what I had to do. And like my cross to Baron life more or less. but I realized it was a lot of anxiety. was, I, my body was filled with cortisol. I was in the flight or fright mode all the time. Um, I couldn't enjoy myself. Um, all my good times or anything that was really great or good for me went so fast and everything else went so slow. And it took a ton of getting into, I got into meditation and then therapy and, did all these things to really hone in on how can I become my best self. And that's really what I'm pushing for now is I wrote my first book called navigate the noise, which is a mindset book. And it really helps people walk through everyday scenarios of what you can do to help. get into the best possible mindset that you can for yourself. That's awesome. I'm sorry that you had to go through all that first of all. It's kind of hard to hear some of these stories in kind of the different situations that people are in, but it's always cool to see how people overcome and deal with them later on in life. So that brings me with one question in mind. What was that turning point for you to realize, you know what, like living an anxious lifestyle, it's not me, I need to do something else. Yes, so it was a multitude of things, but it all happened about four to five years ago. I started having um just a little bit of panic attacks and things like that that were just out of the norm for me. That anxiety was still there within the stomach and it was just a lot of just that give and take and it hit me to the point where I wasn't sleeping, I felt terrible and I was stressed out all the time. And it really like just... For whatever reason, whether it was my mom dying 10 years ago or what it was, was I went through a little bit of a funk those first few years after and then I got to a point of what am I doing and how do I need to fix this? And a big, big thing that was like my glass shattering moment was when I started really studying neuroscience and I realized the side of when our brains, essentially our brain scans will register the same when we're stressed as an animal who's getting hunted in the wild. And when I heard that, I was just like, my God, I got to stop. got to pull back because I knew how much that was within me. And even to this day I've done, I meditate two to three hours a day for about two years now. And even with doing that, I'm still uncoiling some of that stress that I had that was so tightly wound from years ago. So I was like, you can be in your best mode or going through your best times. like, literally yesterday, I had a little bit of that where that stomach thing came back. I'm like, man, it's like that hasn't happened in a while, but I realized it was some like old things that were coming up and it was trauma that was resurfacing. now I know, okay, I used to store it all the time thinking I'll deal with it later. And that's the worst thing you can do. I've learned just to jump in, whether it's jump into praying, jumping into meditating, whatever works for you, find your peace as soon as you start feeling that anxiety, just to try to switch the situation. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And something that works for you isn't going to work for everybody else. But it's important to find that piece that does work for you and to basically build a habit out of it, make it part of your daily ritual. So how would you say like your early experiences with mental health influence your perspective on healing and personal development? Sure. whenever something like bad happens to you, I'm a big believer, think a lot of very human reaction is you want to prevent other people from having to go through that. If you know the pain that it's going to bring or something close to that scenario, you're going to do whatever you can to kind of fix that. So I had a lot of that in me within years. And I just share this because I found this out really late in life. And it took a situation where a coworker at the time was telling a story. And she was just, she was kind of, it was matter of fact. And she was like, because I'm a people pleaser, I forget what exactly was happening, but she mentioned I'm a people pleaser. And then she looked at me and she's like, Dave, you should know you are one too. And I immediately said, no, I'm not. And then I thought about it and it was, oh, I was like, man, I like that. I never realized I was, but that was a response from a lot of the trauma and what I went through when I was younger. And ah it's, you just want everyone to be happy because you grew up through such turbulent times. You just want everything to be calm. And just because you want it doesn't mean the others around you want it. And so you've got to find that what works for you. And especially that individuality, I love being able to help other people, but I also go in with the mindset of they're dealing with a totally different scenario than what I was. I can help them as much as I can. can let them know, hey, this is similar to what I did with this. But it's like anything. Most people, need to really experience something before you think, oh, I need to prepare for that again. It's just that fear of actually if it happening and then that fear of it happening again. It's not as real when it hasn't happened before. Yeah, for sure. But you do something really cool and kind of recognizing with your coaching work is you integrate psychology and neuroscience into it. How do you take those two basically complex things and simplify them for everyday people? So I really wanted to find a way because so much, just the word neuroscience, I know can be intimidating to people. ah It's the study of what our brains do more or less. And it really gives the patterns of what your brain is doing, what it's capable of and how it works. So many people don't really know how their brain works on a day to day. so I go through little things and one quick example is a trick that I let people know. The same part of your brain that processes stress, anger, fear, depression, any of those nasty emotions, is the same part of your brain that processes gratefulness. And it's a really cool phenomenon, but your brain can't experience gratefulness and then one of those nasty emotions, it can't experience them at the same time. So I've done it, I do it myself and I coach others to do the same thing, that it takes a while and it's okay if you get upset or angry or any of those emotions. I made it a game with myself. I'm competitive. And so I kind of made a game of, hey, that upset me for an hour last week. How can I get that down to 30 minutes? How can I get that 30 down to 20? And then you just keep working a little bit more. And it was a game changer for me, just this very simple method. I thought because I had a short temper and I would get angry that that was a really bad negative emotion. And the more you really dig into therapy and how our brains work, it's fine to feel emotions. You're supposed to let it out, then let the people know what the people you care about know what you're saying or what you're going through so that they can actually understand what was happening in that moment. But I always thought when I would get pissed off, angry, I was sliding back. And I realized it's not an on off switch. It's what you can control is how fast you react or come back from when you get into that heightened sense of emotion. And I've really it's it's become an obsession for me. And I don't know if that will be for everyone, but really locking in and I mean, how fast can I get from that? And how can I be in a calm state of mind all the time? It was really an eye-opening experience. had a mentor about two years ago ask me a very, very simple question. And I'll throw it at you to, I don't mean to put you on the spot too much, but yeah. So what are the three best decisions you've made when you've been really, really angry? Honestly, I don't know if I've really ever made a good decision while I've been really angry. That's the right answer. That one hit me because as I said earlier, I'm competitive. And my mentor asked me that question and he was very smug when he was saying it. So I was like, I wanted to prove him wrong. I really wanted to get in and be like, hey, this is exactly the decision I made and exactly what you had said. And I always use this comparison. If you've ever boiled water, boiled pasta water. you're doing it in a stainless steel pot, those silver pots, stainless steel, whatever. When you have the water in there, before you boil it, you can look down and see your reflection. But once the water starts boiling and the seas get choppy in there with the water, you can't see any reflection anymore. And it's really, it's the same, it's water, but the water becomes steam. And it has that other element and it becomes in a different state. And that was, it was a very simple thing to kind of explain. And most people get it once you say it to them, but it's one of those things I think I don't think we've ever really been taught of, hey, if you actually are looking for it, then you know where to diagnose it. when I started asking that, literally your reaction is what I've had from everybody about what are those best decisions. And then the flip side of it is, but I bet you can name three decisions that when you were really mad that you wish you could take back. I probably could give me a second. could probably give up, come up with those. Yeah, it's I find that we we really get into. So I don't mean to cut you off. uh Yeah. So yeah, it's you really don't get into as you just don't really overly think about that. We made our work like I can tell you, I made my worst decisions when I've been angry. That text you shouldn't have said the words you shouldn't have said the emotion like how you react and then you feel ashamed afterwards. Why did I react like that? So it's, that's why I've really just, I challenge everybody who's listening to this, really like implement next time you get angry, try to just walk away, find something that makes you calm and make no decisions when you're in that state. Just say, hey, I need five minutes, 10 minutes, whatever it is. And then come back when you're in a calm sense, because it's why when people say sleep it off, when you have time to think about it and ruminate a little bit, it usually it's not that deep and it's not as personal or as triggering as it was in the moment. Yeah. And I, now that I think about it, it's the probably the three worst things, mistakes that I've made. It always involves like, I'm big, like bottling stuff up. And especially when I was back in my teenage years and living out of my house for the first time going to college, you know, my roommates would get really under my skin. wouldn't say anything. And then out of anger, I would get frustrated and just simply yell at them. basically fly off the handle and I feel really stupid and sorry afterwards. And now my nose tends to be with words. I say the worst things that I can possibly say and then uh I also have a hard time like sometimes just me personally, like seeing that I said those things and like dealing with my emotions afterwards, because I tend to not show a lot of emotion. So my wife always says, well, you said this, you're not sorry. I'm like, well, how do you know I'm not sorry? She's like, cause you don't show it. So that's another thing that I'm having to have had to deal with like within those moments. But I really like one thing that you pointed out, learn to walk away. And I've done that in the past year. Like I started going to therapy pretty on regular basis and pretty heavily at end of last year. And that's one thing he said was, you need to learn how to be calm in the moment. if that means walking away for 30 seconds for reset and walking back in the room, you'll be in a much better spot. And I can attest that is very true. Yeah, and it's something as simple as I've had people who've given a little pushback of like, like, why do like, they don't like that someone's walking away in the moment. like, no, I was like, so some people are going to be able to talk it out in person all the time. And that's fine. I'm one of those people, I've always been like you a majority of my life. like, I because of the trauma and what I went through, I always expect abandonment or I expect things to go bad. And it was just always that constant negative loop cycle in my mind that you're expecting the worst. And that brings another level of anxiety and stress when you have those reactions. And you tend to say stuff, I tell people all the time, was like, if you've ever heard me say something mad, I mean 0 % of it. Literally, like, I just get so frustrated. don't know what's, it's like just, it's word vomit. And it's like, it means nothing. was like, there's nothing tied to it. was like, it's just, I was like, just don't talk to me when I'm in those midst. It's like one of those type things. If you see me like that, it does, yeah, not worth it. Yeah, just other night actually, no, this was probably about a week ago. I have three young kids and bedtime tends to be a real asshole. that's, since I'm anxious, I always have this thing in my mind that things have to go a certain way. So I've had to learn how to lower my expectations a little bit, but I still have those angry moments and I caught myself yelling at one of my kids and I walked away a little bit too late and the next day. my daughter was like, why did you act that way, dad? Why did you do that? So I felt a little bit of guilt for the rest of the day and had to figure out how to explain to her like, you know, it's normal for things like this to happen. I'm still, dealing with stuff that I have to learn how to get rid of. That's I mean, it's amazing that you've hit that step that not many people are that self aware. And you really thank you for sharing that with me because that's it's a very vulnerable thing to admit and say. But that's beautiful that you guys can communicate like that. Like that's, I know so many parents who wish they could communicate. It's a lot of it's the effort, but you could tell you're leading with care and effort. And that's really like having a really big impact that your daughter wasn't scared of you. She went to communicate with you. Why did that happen? And that's, that's amazing. Yeah, she's for five years old. She's not afraid to call me out for my mistakes I like it. like it. It's the first thing I coach. I've coached in the music industry and I tell people you need people in your corner who will tell you the truth. Whether that's kids, family, you can't have yes people who are always pumping you up. It feels nice when you have that but on the whole it's not usually all that realistic. when you have people who can tell you how it is because they love you. that's really taking a step up. a five-year-old, that is really impressive. She's at that age already hitting that, but that's great that you're having something that's happening and she can actively learn from you and you guys can talk about it together. That's really, really cool. Yes, it's a work in progress and we try to teach our kids that they can come to us for anything. We openly talk about it. That's beautiful. So it seems like you have quite a few of like a quite the spectrum of what people think you're coaching, which is really cool. Do you do you feel like there's a common route of all the blocks that people normally run into? I do. it's, that's a great question. That's I run into, I thought I could only do this one way. And I, it literally was kind of like a happy accident, the way my music business happened and why I really, it was, I started doing that right after my dad had passed away. And after he passed away, I really wanted to learn more about the brain because of his manic depressive side. So it was just like a combination of that, but um yeah, it really jumped out and ended up having such a huge impact on that end of everything. It's all really just crazy, like how the mind works. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's so like being able to get into the psychology with these uh clients, the common, like common thread, sorry, I lost track that for a second. But yeah, the common thread that you're talking about is if somebody has a block and a block could be your writer's block, or if you're an executive with a company, it could be you had a couple bad quarters or you're not feeling motivated for work. Any of those type of feelings. I've really dipped in. I moved to, started working in New York City recently and I'm doing more and more in the CEO corporate space. And it's so similar to the musicians. They're just different personalities, but it's the same things. It's they're hitting something where they were very creative and for whatever reason they hit a stop or a block. And I don't really rewrite the handbook with any of this stuff. Anybody who's in a block, what we're going to do is we're going to sit down and we're going to have an active conversation of When were you your most successful? And what were you doing every hour of the day when that happens? And we try to recreate of how to do it. I actively tell them, it's kind of like within that perfect day experiment that I tell them live that day again. When you were your most successful, when you were writing music you loved or if you were doing the work that was passionate and it was like everything's flowing. Like we've had those moments where we love what we do. I go back, I'm like, what were you doing those mornings? What time did you go to sleep when you were doing that? And like, you usually find some type of common thread in there of, okay, they were doing something this way when they were successful, and it's wildly different now. And until they actually say that and get out loud of what's going on, then they have that aha moment of, oh, this was easy. It was right in front of me. And I think that's a lot of stuff is my dad was a minister. So growing up, used to say the phrase, right church, wrong pew. And I think that that's what a lot of people have within mental health is they understand that it is something. So they're in the right church, but they don't know exactly how it can help them. And when you can really master your mind, it sounds like something everybody can do, but it's one of the hardest things to do to be able to stay disciplined, be able to stay focused, locked in when nothing else is around you, it can be tough. So it's a, or if the environment is tough, if you're in a sports environment and you have rowdy fans going on, it has that same impact. It's, it's why I always use this example during COVID, NBA finals. They did that bubble in Orlando and because nobody, no fans could go. So no fans are in the arena and guys start shooting 60 % from three point. And that is absurd and unheard of ever in NBA history. And all the only difference was usually a really good percentage is 40 to 42%. So guys were shooting 18 to 20 % above that. Clearly because no fans were there. There was no noise. So when there's no noise, it's easier. You're able to do that stuff. So it's really finding these pockets of you find what works for somebody, and then from there, start testing it of bring small stresses in, see, OK, how have we grown? And I started doing this concept, and I highly suggest it to anybody listening to this, because it's been life-changing for me. Where I want to be in 10 years is I want to be the best version of myself, best possible version. I map out, okay, this is what I think I could do in three years, five and 10. And every night I journal and I ask myself when everything comes down, would future me be proud of what I did today? Screw everybody else. Would anyone else like, how did I react? Any of that stuff is just, did something like happen. So if I had one of those moments where I slipped up and got angry or wasn't my best self or wasn't what I would really want to be putting out there consistently, I catch it at the end of that night. There's bad habits that really are hard to kind of filter if you're doing that honest assessment every night. So it's just a real simple question I put at the top of my journal that that's the first thing I look at. So I actively asked that question of, would you be proud of what you did today, your future self? That's really cool that you do that. It seems like you'd start to see kind of a pattern of perhaps the bad things that you could possibly do throughout the day. I think in my mind, least for me, I think those things that I did that I would not be proud of would be pretty consistent. Pretty much the same thing across the board. And I also like one other thing that you mentioned throughout that quite a bit is When you mentioned being successful, think back during your most successful time. I've never been and think what you did during that time. Like, was there something you did this hour that was different? Like compared to now, I absolutely love that. I absolutely love that. I've never thought of it that way personally. Nobody's really brought it up that way, but it really makes sense to think back to a time when you were successful. Absolutely. And it's a lot of this stuff I tell people it is it it's not rocket science. It's like as you the more I learned about neuroscience the more simple I realized so much was I was over complicating things. I have ADHD. I overthought overthinking constantly always mapping out if I'm in situation a it could turn out 30 different ways and I'm mapping out how it can happen all those different ways. I think you might have a little of that or you at least understand it from what you're saying. So yeah, I What was a big game changer for me was ah David Bayer wrote this book, A Changed Mind. And he talked about, it was called a thought matrix. And I'd never really heard of it put that way. I've heard of limiting beliefs and I heard people talk about all that stuff, but he really, it was like a thought decision matrix. And it was, what's the problem that you're dealing with? What's stressing you out, whatever the case is. And then the next step was, how important is it? And is this vital to what's going to happen for you in the next week, the next year? Is it, and like you really can root out stuff right away of, it's not that deep. it's a little bit of a work assignment as you're first doing it. But then as you start realizing it, so I then I got onto limiting beliefs. I'm like, oh, I think negatively a lot. How do I fix that? And I heard Joe dispense a talk about how your thoughts are a reflection of your feelings and you go through all these things and kind of hit all these ends. And when you're on that negative side, you're there's proof between stress, raised cortisol, Your thoughts can make you sick. And Joe Dispenza really went into the work of, if you think positively, could your thoughts then make you better? If that's the flip side, if one make one is that and a lot of that is so true is when you can remove that cortisol and lower that within your body, when you have high cortisol, it's like you have trouble fighting infections. You have trouble, like the basics of what our body does. And if you can literally just lower that. yeah, anyone in that, if you're in that range where you overthink, start writing down every time you think of something negative or use is on the tinge of negative and it's very cumbersome because we think 80,000 thoughts a day. But this is on the neuroscience side where I get really excited to tell people is like we think that much a day, but within neuroplasticity, we can rewire our brains. So we're not exactly who we are. We're not stuck in our ways. A lot of people say that and if you believe it, usually if you say it, you're going to follow that route. So you go into so many of these different examples. I've got tons, but the one that comes to me is there was this article that came or a paper that was made for this group of testing students. And essentially these two sets of students, it was a study that half of them thought themselves as lucky and then the other half thought themselves as unlucky. So they were both given the same assignment, both groups. They were given a newspaper. And they were asked to count all the images within the newspaper. And so once the assignment started, you have everybody going through the newspaper. What they didn't know going in was on page two, there was this little sign that says, stop reading now. There are this many pictures. And it said how many images there were in the paper. They're like, you don't need to read anymore. This isn't a trick. You're done. That's all you need to do. And it was wild because the People who thought themselves as unlucky never saw that page too. They just kept going because they didn't see a picture and they kept rolling for it. So their eyes weren't looking for it. But the people who thought themselves as lucky, they saw more of the room and they caught it right away. So it's, it's very, a lot of it is perception and the way we see things. Think about if you're stressed, you've got a really focused point of view. You're really like zoned in on what you're looking at. When you're calm and relaxed, you see the whole room. You kind of lean back. You got that whole view. So it's. Again, with that calm feeling of how calm can I be throughout the day, I know that if I'm able to do that, then I'm seeing the entire room. I'm seeing stuff that I might not see otherwise. If I'm stressed, I'm missing a lot. So it's one of those eye-opening, I don't mean to make a pun about it, but eye-opening moments for me that it was, I was like, it's really that simple. That's really interesting to think about because I can actually relate to that because it's like the more positive vibes that I've kind of set myself and, you know, being able to subconsciously like think about stuff and like, oh, I'm the wrong thing here. It seems like things in general just go better in my life. And so I'd like to think that now I'd be one of those people that see that on page two. Yeah. Before I know, I was not anywhere close to that. Yeah, well, it's and I mean, that's awesome that you say that because I'll say how old are you if you don't mind me asking? All right, so I literally I you're ahead of where I was because I I'm 41 and I was mid 39 about to turn 41. A lot of this started clicking for me. I've done more and more and I had been coaching prior, but the more I started studying psychology, neuroscience and then epigenetics as well of how our genes are affected by all this. That was a wild thing that stress alone can shut off certain gene receptors in your body. So stuff that you might actually be really good at, you're not even putting yourself in the position to try it because the stress is really like shutting it all down. And as well as within our brain, and this is something some people may have heard of, but essentially it's all within the same realm. But it's a lot. People know the right car theory. Or if you've bought a new car and you were renting a new car, leasing a car, whatever. You're driving it that first time and then suddenly you see that car everywhere on the road. It's just one of those things is not your brain was looking for it. So that are it's called the reticular RAS, reticular activating system within the brain. So what it does is it essentially we see things and it's how we kind of understand it. And that's how we all break it down. That's how we see the world. And a lot of people, if you're in that negative loop, you're talking about how tired I am. how stressed I am. And like, it's like that running monologue going in your body all the time. And if you're telling that to your brain, that's what you're gonna feel. So I started the whole thing of like getting into, it's been like weeks now and anybody who knows me or knew me growing up, I was always tired, always wanted to take a nap, always saying I was tired constantly. I could have slept 10 hours and I'm telling you I'm tired the next day. Just, I've always been like that. And I realized a lot of it was the story I was saying, because if I didn't get eight hours, I was obsessing over, okay, well, now it's only seven and a half hours and I had insomnia and now it's seven and six. before you know it, I'm only getting three hours of sleep. And it's just, was the stress that I was living with all the time that I didn't realize I was making myself sick by just really thinking that way. And for now, the last couple months, I literally like rewired that completely because when I meditate at night and say my affirmations and prayers, I say, when my alarm clock goes off tomorrow morning, I'm going to have so much energy and it's going to be a great day. it was, and I'm priming my brain and that's the whole RAS. It's going to go where you tell it to go. So many of us don't realize that when we think negative or if we think something's going to be terrible, it probably is because you're, you're creating that reality to kind of come out of it. So it's a, if you go in expecting that it's a huge mix of just try it, try it for a week or a month of think nothing but positive and like say that before you go to sleep, tomorrow is going to be like this, or this event is gonna go like this. And it's kind of wild as you really start digging in how much more positive your life can be when you start thinking that way. I'm actually going to try that tonight because one of the hardest part of my day is waking up and thinking it's going to be a good day. It's one of those things that I'm still working on. I think it goes back to something I said earlier. I mentioned that I have certain expectations and I have to lower those expectations so I don't get too frustrated. But I hate waking up in the morning. So I'm actually, before I go to bed tonight, I'm going to... say a couple affirmations to say tomorrow's going to be a great day. And then a week from now, I plan on reaching back out to you and saying this really helped. I'm looking forward to that. can't wait to hear that. let me, I'll give you something more as well as whoever's listening to really dig into this. So you know that moment before like you're really tired, you're just about to fall asleep, like in that like kind of range. So that as well as the first 10 minutes when you wake up, it's really, they say like the last 10 minutes before you go to sleep, first 10 minutes when you wake up, your brain is still partially in a theta state. And when your brain's in theta, that's usually majority of when you're sleeping, you're in theta. So when you're in that brain mode, you are more susceptible to your subconscious. So your subconscious listens to you more weirdly enough during those times, because in theta, you're essentially talking to your subconscious. You have that direct line that you're as clear as you can be. So if you can do that the last 10 minutes before you go to bed, 10 minutes when you wake up, I slide this, put your phone, keep your alarm on your phone, put it on the other side of the room. The first 10 minutes when you wake up, no phone. Do your affirmations, brush your teeth. Like a good one that they say, especially to get the brain really working is brush your teeth with the opposite hand when you're doing that. But if you're in that theta state, do your affirmations, look in your mirror, say three times that I love you or I believe in you. Whatever you do on the motivation side or if you have affirmations, that's when you say them. And I'll give you the flip side of what a lot of people end up doing. So those first 10 minutes you wake up, your brain's in that theta state. and most people will grab their phones, open it up, and if you're stressed about something, you're probably looking right for a text message that's gonna bring up that exact stressor of what you're thinking about. And essentially I tell them, I'm like, what's the difference of you opening that text 20 minutes in or 10 minutes in or one minute in? There is no difference, but you're literally giving your brain a head start if you can wait those 10 minutes. Yeah, and I can see that, like, really being true. I feel like we, when we, especially with me, I do this all the time. I wake up and I look at my phone and I'm always comparing myself to someone or something. And it just starts my day off bad. there's, it takes me about an hour to get out of that little funk that I put myself into. But there's no one to blame other than myself. It's, you know that it's happening. And I mean, I'll challenge you just as a friend of what we're talking about here, try to lower that time. If it took you an hour, see if next time you can make it 30 minutes or 45. And I'm not like, don't jump in. I always say, all right, say you did 50, no problem. That tomorrow you get upset and you're able to come back within 50 minutes. And then the next time it was something that was a little bit harder and it takes you 55 minutes. That's okay if you go that little bit backwards, but it's just one of those things that it's a very easy way to measure progress as you're going through it. If you could say this used to like, and I've had so many examples that I can't tell you over the last month. I've told friends, I've told my fiance, I've gone into it that something happens to me and I'm like, me six months ago would have freaked out or two years ago, I would have lost my mind. And today it happens and I'm like, okay, it's just you. almost disarm it that has no power over you by getting into that relaxed state just because you realize how good you feel, the decisions you make while you're in that state and the more you see of it, you're like, man, I don't want to feel any way else. So you really just start hyping yourself into a situation where you can jump into that and be your best self. Nice, I love that. I want to kind of dive into some of your coaching here. What are some signs that someone is ready to change their mindset but doesn't know where to begin? Usually when they've gone through something really traumatic or they've hit a rock bottom. And that could be a lot of different scenarios for people. But it's when you feel you're in a situation essentially like you're in quicksand and you have no help. That you're at a point of no return. People unfortunately with a lot of things, you have to hit a bottom to know that there was a problem. Otherwise, if it really wasn't that bad, you might go back to it. and help. know people who know that they're bad and they still go back to it. Addiction can be so hard within that realm. So yeah, it's really finding someone who's gone through something. find especially it's maybe it's trauma bonding, it could be a thing, but I've related a lot of that with people being able to share that you've been through something. It's almost like you're part of a club of you wear it as a badge of honor that you went through a lot of stuff and you came out the other side of it. So it's when people hit that moment and it's really sad because I hate seeing people there. But I let them know that it's, we all read stories growing up, whether it was in school or when we watch movies, we love stories as people. It just gives us hope of what we do. And I like to tell people, is this, do you really think this is how your story is going to end? If you believe in God, you believe in whoever you believe in, if you have some type of higher faith, you think they would let this be your end? A lot of people don't really look at it as that, but I'm like, this is your story. You don't think you're going to have the greatest moments of your life still ahead of you or some of the greatest moments of your life. And most people just think it's going to be that negative forever. And it doesn't have to be. so much of that is led with how you start thinking and what you expect. And when you kind of disarm that and you're just happy being in the moment and happy being who you are, which it's a very hard thing to do, that you really just have to break down going through something. Tony Robbins teaches this a lot of things don't happen to you, they happen for you. And when you can switch that point of view, it changes so much. Because if you're always reactive, this person did this to me, this to me. It's like, no, I put myself in that situation where they could do that to me. And it's like, when you realize that, you're just like, okay, I was there and they taught me I don't like being treated like that. And you could take your learning lessons out of it, or you could just bitch about and be angry all the time. So you can take either route and... which way is healthier and just even listening that you're like, yeah, like not complaining about it all the time is the better way to go. But so much of us do, like we fall into that thing. And it's also what a lot of people don't realize when something bad happens to you. And this could just be like you were in a car, like someone rear-ended you, any type of situation, it could be in the moment or be meditated, whatever the case is. But if you have one of those moments kind of happen to you, I use this example with a car, like in the same role, this probably a little bit better. of, I used to get road rage. People would cut me off and I would go zero to a hundred, F bomb this, like just angry, like really bad. and a coach really pushed me and he said, what are we doing? And I was just like, I was like, it's like, what do you expect? That person cut me off. Like, what do you think? And he's like, he's like, when, when have you ever driven your car and intended to hit somebody? He's like, but I'm sure you've been in your car and you've looked at your phone and you've almost hit some. And it's like we've all been there and we've all been embarrassed. he just, when he changed that, I was just like, yes, like no one really is trying to just ruin their car or just run into someone or like, and so if we take that mindset of it, it really disarms it. And trust me, in the moment, I still get mad for a second, but that's something that used to like, I would, I would be in a great mood and someone cuts me off and I'm pissed the rest of the day. And now I can catch that. It's usually like three to five seconds, but I'm angry for that. And then I'm just like, okay, it's done. It's like, I got it out. I got that initial burst out. It's fine. It's done. it just really becomes, to me, think it's like a superpower that you can almost turn off that stuff that used to make me react has no hold on me anymore. So to me, it was a sign of weakness. If something gives you a reaction or if you're pissed off or whatever, I'm like, they hold power over you. I got sick of having that and I was like, come from something where I've been through such bad stuff that I know if I give them power, they're going to take it. you got to be able to hold that and hold that for yourself. If you don't let people get you angry, they've got zero power over you. Well, that's for sure. And I think when it comes to road rage, doesn't take much to ruin your whole day. For sure, for sure. Luckily, that's one that I'm so glad I experienced myself because it has had the biggest impact on the people I work with and the people around me because so many of them are saying that they're now reformed, former angry drivers that they're like, they'd say, thanks, Dave. They're like, we're, we don't, don't get angry there. But for me, I was like, man, I was like, that was something that, especially within our body. So I had mentioned earlier, we think about 70 to 80,000 thoughts a day. according to modern science, they say by the time you're like 35, 33 to 35, 90 % of those 70 to 80,000 thoughts are automated. Essentially like in our kind of like, essentially our subconscious that we're just automatically doing it. And I use this relation that same going back to a car, if you've ever driven in a car and one of your favorite songs comes on and before you know it, the song's ending and it's like, I don't even remember the chorus or the second verse or like, it just, it's over. And it's like how you can kind of lose time. That's your auto, that's kind of like your automated system working on its own. And I use, if you're going something basic is most people sleep on the same side of the bed, brush their teeth with the same hand, take a shower at the same time, have the same routine over and over and over again. And if you're doing that, your brain, you're not mastering your brain. Your brain has neuroplasticity, it can rewire, can do different things. You just have to do slightly different things. And it just opens up whole other possibilities. I don't know you've ever seen what a brain looks like if you're seeing any of the scans, but it looks like a solar system. It's crazy of how all that stuff is going. And if you're only doing that automated stuff, you're only using a portion that it's like, man, you could use so much more. for me, it's the opening of that of it's made me a better person. It's made me more compassionate. It's made me think more. It's made me really just kind of get on a level that I never, I was always a kind, caring person, but I'm on another level because of how much that really has been able to dial back, taking the stress away from where I was to now that I could just kind of be in the moment and be there to help people where in the past, I can openly admit I was bringing a lot of my trauma into the situation. Even though I was relating to it with them, I was almost trauma dumping. And it's one of those things, we fall into it. You feel a situation, you want to be able to relate to somebody. So I always share with that because it's something that I know I used to do wrong and I really go out of my way to fix that now. Yeah, that's really cool that you're able to do that. For me, feel like I'm in a certain place, but I feel like there's so much more that I can do to kind of just make my body more relaxed and live a more calm life. But you also kind of a few minutes ago brought up something really important that I want to kind of just emphasize on, and that's how you mentioned that people come to you. when they've that rock bottom. And I just wanted to say, like, unfortunately, I feel like some people have to hit that rock bottom to really feel like they need that help to push themselves forward to get the help that they need. Yeah, it's my mom used to say this to me when I was a kid and it hits more now. She had like all these little sayings that would happen, but she was convinced that you had to be at a certain low. You had to get down to a certain level before you would actually know you need to change it. And it's like uh if you've ever like people who experiment with anything, if you're doing candy, like taking candy or something like that. you're going to have like a sugar rush. it's like, like you have an effect of whatever you do. So it's, uh, you really want to watch how that happens. And just because you can handle one thing, doesn't mean you can handle the other. And if you're bringing stress into your life, stress is stress and it might not affect you now, but it might be in a year or two years or five years. And so I was living in that constant state of stress and I was working in corporate America, high finance, leverage type jobs. And it was, I was. bleeding with stress and constantly stressed. And I didn't know I was. like that was the scary thing is I started getting, I got an heartbeat and like all these, like all these little thing, blood pressure started going off. And when I'm pretty healthy and I'm having high blood pressure a couple of years ago, based off of work situation I was in, I was like, I can't keep doing this. I knew that it was me or I was just gonna let myself die because I was that stressed all the time. So for me, it was watching, how other people treated others when they were stressed and seeing how I didn't ever want to be like that and how like talking down and being on like people like that it can it could just really have a really negative impact and when I saw that and saw someone I was working with who had a history of had a heart attack because of how he treated his work it made me realize I don't need to have that to know I need to change this. And ah so it was eye-opening. It was the situation I was in and I'm really big on frequencies of you attract the life that you're living. And I was bringing a lot of chaos and craziness into my life because I was so negative and in that negative thought loop and limiting belief cycle. Yeah, I've definitely been there. I suffer from, well, 2009 I started having seizures. were really bad in that year. They died down for years. Then I started having really bad depression and anxiety. But fast forward, making a long story short, it wasn't until last year, the end of 2024, where I had a cluster of seizures that... And that was kind of my breaking point, realizing that I was in this bad place. was, you know, it was kind of poor, picked on me. I have seizures, I suffer from anxiety. I was letting all these things define me. And at very end of last year, I was like, I'm changing all this. I changed my diet, started heavy therapy, and just recognizing patterns that I'd never recognized before. For you, it's so and I mentioned the future self thing before. I want you to think about this because this is something that's been very helpful to me. Think about you 10 years ago. And what you were able to pull yourself out of. Imagine 10 years ago, you, 29, and you're looking at yourself at 36, 37, whatever the ages are, and you're just like, man, I don't want to live like that. And then they're seeing what you did now to come out of that. And I do a lot of that younger self stuff and really like dive in of, man, like I know what I'm doing now. My 13 year old self would think is really cool and like would really love what I'm doing. Five years ago, I couldn't say that same thing. Yeah, I'm right there with you. And if I was the same person today as I was a year, even a year ago, I would not be doing this podcast. had so much, I had the idea, but I had so much imposter syndrome and just didn't feel like I was good enough to put myself out there and actually talk to people. What made that change for you? I honestly, as soon as I started, you know, making changes for myself and was able to overcome a lot of the anxiety and depression that I was feeling, I was like, you know, my voice actually really needs to be heard. I know I have the ability to talk to people and I love talking to people and I want to create a space for them to tell their story. And so I just did it at a whim. I was like, I'm going to tell my story. So that was my first episode. And I started getting, finding interested people to speak with me. that. That's, mean, that it's, it's like I said, it took me a long time to get to where I'm at now. But I'm, I'm at the point now where I'm like, I'm glad all that stuff happened to me in the past. I'm so thankful because it really shaped who I am and how I view stuff and like weird stuff that really will throw someone stay off that I work with has no effect on me. And it's like you find that but also that you're giving people space. This is a, the mental, I think it's the coolest thing what you're doing and that other people have hit this, but especially what you're doing, talking about people, letting them know that our biggest mistakes don't define us. They can define us. They can define us for the best, but most people think you are just who you're, who you are at your worst or whatever the worst thing that ever happened to you. And I mean, so many will say, fall into whatever it's peer pressure or whatever from that reaction, but I really do believe that the worst thing that ever happened to you could be your biggest blessing or it could be your biggest curse. And it's our choice to really, how do we carry that? And you could have complained about your health. You could have made every excuse in the book, but instead you want to help make people feel better. So it's really beautiful that you're doing that. Awesome. Thank you. Now I just want to get back onto what I have like one more coaching question that I'm just curious about. So you, since you deal with such a wide range of people or clients, how do you tailor your methods to the different types of people? Sure. So that's a great question. It's one of my favorite things that I get to do is, and it creates more work for me, but I think it really helps everybody that I work with. I create a plan individually. There's no, I don't do templates. uh I literally, I try to dig in and almost come in. I try to tell people, tell me anything about you or what you're going through. I want to kind of get immersed and feel it with just like what your day to day is. And yeah, so that way we could get through and I use that heavily because a tailored approach individually, if you have, we have different personality types. So very like, we'll do a basic one. One person is an introvert and one's an extrovert. You're going to coach them differently. The extrovert's going to be more rah rah and up up and the introvert's going to be more down and have those type of things. So that was one of my biggest things when I started working within the record. in the music industry that I was working with some record labels and they essentially they were mad at their artists because they were missing deadlines. The artist doesn't know what to do because the artist has writer's blockings dealing with mental stuff, especially during COVID. It would just hit music really hard. It was maybe the only industry that people could go perform, do concerts and for a solid like two years that just stopped. They had nowhere to perform, nothing to do unless you were doing it online, like on Instagram or something, Instagram Live or something like that. So it just really impacted that industry of you could do it whenever you wanted to, no, you can't do it anymore. And so I knew that there was going to be a big problem with that very quickly and I wanted to be able to help. So I really feel your call to action of what you did is kind of what I did on the music side. And I would tell some of these record labels at times that they would be, they wanted to like, just come down on the artists. They thinking, being negative or talking down or yelling at them that that's gonna get the result that they're looking for. And I tried letting them know, especially the introverted ones, they're like a turtle. If you start yelling at them, they're gonna go in their shell and they're not coming out. And I was like, would you rather have that and they shut down for another six to eight months or give me three weeks and let's see what we can do. So it took some trust and it took a while for me to really break in. But then the results really started speaking for themselves that. artists were writing songs quicker than they ever had before and that they were more motivated and wanted to write these things, where it was, were in a moment where they like, they're like, do I even want to do this? When we first started working together. So it was really the coolest thing to see people have this insane musical talent. They kind of lost sight of it a little bit and helping them find it again, because you could see that they had a joy in life in the past and they were very bitter because they had that joy, but don't have it anymore. And being able to help them find it again was Like, the coolest thing for me. Yeah, it is really cool. And it's like just in those moments where you see somebody like push through something, I could only imagine that's an awesome feeling. Just me being kind of a music nerd here. Do you deal with like one music genre over another when it comes to the musicians that you that you deal with? I'm in a bunch of different genres. Majority pop, that'll be the staple. It's what I grew up with and it's what I think I write the best. But then I realized I got to work out of Nashville for a couple of years and had a couple artists that I was working with out of there. And then I started getting into country. So I started sliding into that and started writing a lot of like pop country stuff. I always thought it was like the very, I was never into the honky tonk type stuff. And then as I got to Nashville, I'm like, the music isn't all that. was like, it's like, that's one, one faction of it. But there was a window that I could kind of, uh, put my style into it. So I got to do a little bit of country there for a bit. I've done some hip hop, R and B, name it. It's probably done something along that line, but, yeah, it weirdly enough, that whole country experience gave me the confidence that I could do any job. That's really cool. Thank you. Sorry, that's just my music nerd coming out. All good, all good. I'm one as well, so you can talk music all day. I grew up a kind of emo, like when I was in my teenage years and went through a phase where it's just like screaming and heavy metal. Now it's just country pop, still the heavy metal, just whatever I'm in the mood for. So in the music industry, how is the conversation around mental health changing? It's so it was something that people were aware of, but it was kind of like I say it's very was like what it was like a mainstream. What I've seen in a lot of the major cities that I've been around is that everyone, if you mentioned it to somebody of what do feel about mental health? It's like, oh yeah, it's something we we've got to handle. But I think that that answer really reigns on different levels for most people. I always use the example of my parents. grew up from their parents, obviously my grandparents, and that generation. So I'm 41. My grandparents, having my parents, went through that whole cycle of they never, mental health didn't exist. So, sorry, I'm trying to get this out. It's not the easiest flowing things. I haven't talked about this before, but yeah, getting into the side of, so they were raised on one level of you didn't talk about mental health. almost wasn't even a problem. then mental health started becoming in the conversation when I was a teenager. And it was being talked about a little bit, people realized depression, the suicide rate was going up and like, it just became more of like in the natural conversation. And even then, on my parents' side, it was like, kind of like not a thing. So I just recently got diagnosed with ADHD within the last two years. And it probably should have been picked up, but it was just one of those things that that really wasn't even in the frame of mind for people. So yeah, it's one of those things that they went through that and what I'm really looking forward to is the future generations after us is because we are so cognizant of it. We're going to be looking forward to our kids and having those conversations early, whereas we've had that feeling of, I'm sure you went through it when you younger from just the way our parents were, was you felt isolated and you felt times where you were alone or like no one was around you. I had that a bunch. So it's really like digging in. I know when I have children that I never want them to have that feeling that I had. And trust me, my mom was like the greatest mom in the world. But she had to work like three jobs to just give me and my brother, my sister a great life. And she did. But outside of that, I had to spend a lot of time alone. So I got used to that. And now I look back at it and I like kind of I really wish I tapped into a lot of this when I was younger, because like, man, I could have meditated all the time when I was doing all that stuff. I think in disguise, you know, going through now it's One of those that same thing, I'm glad for that it happened. It really makes me cognizant and want to help more that people aren't feeling that same type of thing in that we can avoid the mistakes we've made if we tell people what the mistakes were. And it's, I'm big on accountability and like really digging into that and within everything within yourself. And if we can do that, it really takes a huge step with what we are as a country, as we are as a world to really help people be more cognizant of mental health and open to it. Yeah, I completely agree. And I just have a few more questions here. What are a few mindset shifts that you believe everyone should adopt in their daily lives? Ooh, definitely rooting out the limiting beliefs. And I've said that a couple of times and an example of limiting beliefs is going to be the, can't do it, I'm going to fail. The internal voice of you saying this, you're going to, want to do something new and then you're really excited about it. And then you wake up the next morning. It's like, I don't know, I don't think it's going to work. And it's like, this is going to be bad. And the way we actively will talk ourselves out of something because we're scared or we don't know how it's going to end or whatever the case is. really being able to limit that. Notice when you start thinking that negative, when you start feeling anxiety just because you're thinking, stop it. Like go through and like go through what we had mentioned earlier. What's one to three things you're grateful for. And I always tell people like for me, my personal thing is one of the happiest times is my mom really made Christmas amazing all the time at our house when we were kids. So I go back to a lot of like daily that I'm like, thinking about certain Christmases with my, like what great memories I have with my brother, my sister, my mom from those Christmases. And it's like that feeling of joy of knowing I was getting presents and I was so excited and it was like having all that. And I try to channel into that of like how great I felt that and how can I feel that great now? And I just try to like, obviously you're a kid so you have another level of joy. So it's hard to reach that, but it's finding that because so often we think of the negative of how bad everything can be. And we've got this anxiety and the stress from those feelings, what's the hurt of being grateful for a little bit and thinking of that positive side? And it becomes something that you really like love to become obsessed with because once you think of that positive side and you start seeing this shift of positivity in your life, you're just like, man, this really does work. So big on the law of attraction, law of assumption, all the laws of the universe of like really digging into what those mean. like, it's a big reflection of thinking and living that as much as you can. people talk about manifestation a lot, that they get into that. And that's a really cool thing for me recently, the last couple of years is because manifestation, if you said that word five years ago, it was still a little taboo and like out there. And now a lot of people are like, oh yeah, I manifest all the time. I'm like, all right, cool. I can talk about this with almost anybody. And so I usually come to the main example to most people. ask, okay, what are you trying to manifest? And someone will say a random thing, like a million dollars. And I'm like, okay. So what did you manifest that? Well, I prayed to God last night and I won a million dollars and I was like, okay, how long did you pray for? And they're like, maybe a minute, two minutes. I was like, okay, so the other 23 hours and 59 minutes of the day, what was going on outside of sleep? And they said, well, I was worried about this. I have work, I was stressed, I was doing that. And I'm like, okay. So I was like, you manifested for a minute and you think that that's gonna happen. I was like, don't you think you'd have a better odds of if you're doing more of it throughout the day and living like the real big thing about that type of life is you're embodying what's going on. And if you're constantly in that stress cycle, how could you embody being abundant or having that next step of what really could make you great? So it's a, that's a big thing about the future self for me as well as if you're becoming your best self and you're, doing that accountability daily to get to that. Those are active steps that you can really just do simply within your own self. You're not competing against anyone. There's nothing you have to like compare or go at that way. You could just go at yourself and just really have a way to dig in and every day keep yourself accountable and how do you get better? I absolutely love it and I want to say to the listeners out there, kind of just expanding on that a little bit, keep at it because you may not see results as soon as you want to but the more you keep at it, the results are going to come and they're life changing. Now I just have one generic question that I ask everyone that comes onto the show, because I like to hear the responses and I can tell you that it's rarely the same. What do you believe is the biggest stigma in regards to mental health today? Oof. Okay, so I don't want to overcomplicate this. Just give me a second to think of what's the best way to phrase this. Okay, so I think the biggest stigma within mental health is that if someone's listed as, if you know of someone or someone says that person has depression, the amount of levels that there are of what kind of depressed someone can be, a very normal person who's never dealt with mental health issues can have depression. And that is... It's that's the construct of like that if something's wrong with you because you have that it's usually no, you just have been ignoring something that your body's trying to tell you and you haven't figured it out yet. So mental health is not a bad thing. In a lot of cases, like ADHD can be considered like a negative or uh handicapped. Some people I tell people it's my superpower. I can get hyper focused and really do like 12 to 18 hours of work on any given day. That's not normal. And I know that and it's something that it's just, I've been able to do and I've always been told I do too many things or work too many angles of stuff, but it's just, it's the only way I know how, but I was able to lean into that. Okay, so my body's telling me this and I go through stages of, I really like to go out for a bit. uh I'm a mix of extrovert and introvert. So it hits on different levels and... I've been in like the last two months, I've been in more of a mode of very introvert that I'm just kind of like home a lot. I'm just like very content and calm and peaceful. I, it's, that's why I tell with people is like, it's different and it's based off what you're going through, what you're dealing with in that scenario. But yeah, all mental health is not the same. ah You can have the same exact diagnosis or disease as another person and you can have two totally different treatment plans. And it could work for both of you. It's just going to be, it's that simple. Our brains are so complex that you're never gonna have an exact cookie cutter version one to the other. So no, that's a great question. It's something I could go on forever, I'll stop there. That was great. I love those answers. I love hearing the different things that I get from every different person on here. Where can people find you? The easiest way is Instagram. David McKee, 84. Also, another angle consulting is my company. That's also on Instagram. You can find that way. And I've got my debut book will be coming out later this year. It's called Navigate the Noise. It's designed that anybody from seventh grade and up should be able to read it and get through it. And it is littered with so many things of the power of visualization, positive thinking, going into all that. And I'll leave it with this is Positive thinking can sound a little hokey and visualization and meditation can seem like it's out there. I was a big sports fan and you talk about Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tiger Woods, Phil Jackson, people who are great at what they did in their sport all come down to the simple thing, Michael Phelps, Roger Federer, I could keep going on. But they all talk about how they visualized, how they meditate, how they jumped into that and it was all through positive thinking. And that's the difference is these people who are known, Michael Jordan especially when people talk about basketball, He had that killer instinct and he was such a winner and it was all that, it was his mindset. He didn't let himself have any weakness. found ways to compete with himself and the weirdest ways to keep himself going. And that's such a big challenge for what people need to do. But that's why I wrote this book. I knew after COVID that a lot of people had issues with shorter attention spans, stuck on social media, can't get off their phones. And this book is a really simple way of starting the right. steps to be able to get into a positive frame of mind and really healthy way of living. Awesome. And all those links that you mentioned, put them in, make sure to put them in the show notes for everyone to click on. not a problem. And last thing, is there anything you would like to discuss that we did not discuss tonight? I think we got through it all, I am looking forward to talking to you in about a week because I want to see how your sleep affirmations are helping you. yeah, hold me to it. I'll reach out to you. Awesome book. David, thank you so much for coming on. It's been a pleasure talking with you. I admire the work you're doing and how you're putting your expertise to work and helping people out. It's really needed in this society. Thank so much, Travis. And honestly, I can say the same thing back to you. I appreciate what you're doing. So thank you for having me today. yeah, my pleasure. And thank you to all the listeners. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to join in. And please follow us, subscribe, share our stuff, and just get our name out there, the best thing you can do. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.