Why Suppressing Anger Is Making You Anxious, Depressed, and Physically Sick

What if the anger you were taught to suppress never disappeared—only turned inward?

In this episode of Overcome with Travis White, Travis sits down with licensed psychotherapist and anger expert Bronwyn Schweiger to unpack the uncomfortable truth about anger, shame, and mental health. Bronwyn shares how suppressed, dissociated anger can manifest as anxiety, depression, insomnia, and even physical illness—and why avoiding anger doesn’t make it go away.

Together, they explore how childhood conditioning, shame, and fear of abandonment teach us to disconnect from anger at a young age, and how that disconnection follows us into adulthood. Bronwyn explains why anger is not the enemy, how it holds wisdom, and how reconnecting with it can be a powerful step toward healing.

This conversation challenges everything we’ve been taught about “negative emotions” and offers a compassionate, honest look at what real emotional healing requires.

What We Discuss:

• Why suppressed anger often shows up as anxiety, depression, and physical symptoms
• How childhood shame and emotional invalidation shape adult mental health
• The difference between healthy anger and destructive anger
• Why shame keeps people stuck—and why it isn’t an emotion
• How therapy can help reconnect you to emotions you’ve learned to avoid
• The link between unresolved emotional pain and insomnia, illness, and burnout
• Why being true to yourself isn’t selfish—it’s healing

Learn More:

• Bronwyn Schweiger Podcast: Angry at the Right Things

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, share it with someone who needs it, and remember—you’re not broken. You’re human.

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Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to Overcome a Mental Health Podcast. I'm your host Travis White and this is a place for you to share your mental health stories. I am so excited to be speaking with Bronwyn Schweiger today. Bronwyn is a psychotherapist and anger expert. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Travis. The pleasure is all mine. I appreciate you taking some time out of your day to have a discussion with me. And I'm not going to waste any more time because people don't want to hear from me. I'm just going to the microphone over to you and let you tell us about yourself. Yeah, so I am a licensed psychotherapist, like you said, and an anger expert. And I kind of stumbled into this business because I already had a career. I already had a master's degree in nutrition and I was happy with that first career. But then as life would have it, I found myself in a very, very severe depressive episode. And this was about 17 years ago. And I went to different therapists at that time because everyone I knew was like, you need to go to a therapist. So I did and I saw several different therapists and each time I would sit on the couch and think to myself, you know what Bronwyn, even though you are barely functioning right now, I still think you would make a better therapist than this person that you're working with. so eventually I just decided you know what, I'm gonna go back to school and get another master's and become the therapist that I wish I had. And I did. And so what happened was over time between that depressive episode and a subsequent one that was very pernicious. And then also becoming a therapist and being on the listening end of other people's depressive episodes, other people's anxiety episodes. and their mental health and their somatic issues like headaches, insomnia, gut issues, all of that, I kind of started connecting these dots. And I really found that the common denominator between all of these mental illnesses, physical illnesses seems to be our dissociated anger that we are not allowing ourselves to connect with or know is valid and I find that when we dissociate from our anger, it doesn't just evaporate. It kind of makes its home within our bodies and it kind of stagnates inside of us and it makes us sick. And so that's kind of how I became the anger expert and started my own podcast called Angry at the Right Things to kind of get this out to the public at large, not just my clients. That's cool. I mean, I don't want to use the word cool, but it's cool to the point like you figured out like your life's, you figured out like this mission for your life after having your own struggles. I'm not saying that I wish the struggles upon you. That's not what I mean. But it's, and it's hard to say that like it's. because sometimes I feel like it takes some kind of challenge in life to actually find your purpose. You And you've helped clients reconnect to their anger. Why is anger such a misunderstood emotion? Yeah, I think that most of us start to disassociate from our Ingrid at a very, very young age, usually probably around two, which is, we have this term called the terrible twos. you know, when a child is going through those early years, they are differentiating from the parent. And it is not easy for the parent. Being a parent, I can say it's not easy. And Yeah, that child really needs to learn to have those boundaries to feel that anger and to say no me mine and So to walk that fine line, you know is hard as a parent But I want to say when a parent thwarts that child's efforts to differentiate and have those boundaries Through maybe like the silent treatment a lot of parents, you know do kind of a silent treatment situation or when they thwart it by shaming the child, like humiliating them in any way, or maybe even with, you know, corporal punishment or threats of punishment. What that does, unfortunately, is that creates an association in that little child's mind. My anger equals danger, danger of abandonment, because a little child, you know, the silent treatment from it from an attachment figure means I'm going to be abandoned. They can't entertain that. They don't know that, no, that's just a silent treatment. No, to them, it's a really big deal. And so that anger, that templates there, my anger equals me being all alone, me being ashamed of myself. So, or it's dangerous in some way. And so those templates stay with us throughout our lives, unbeknownst to us consciously. And they, you know, create this unhealthy dynamic where we don't validate our own anger we dissociate from it. Does that make sense? Yeah, that totally makes sense. speaking about children and stuff, like, what's the best way to, I guess, get them to not suppress that anger? Yeah, well, I would say it's really important that parents validate a child's anger. So with a child, their main language is their behavior. They're not going to say, I'm angry. But if we can help them, we can say, you know what? I see your body by your body that you are angry. You know, this tantrum, man, I can see how angry you are right now. But you know what? I'm going to need you to use your words and say, mommy, I'm angry. And it's okay to be angry with me. That's okay. It doesn't mean you're going to get your way, but it's okay to feel angry. That's legitimate. I can see why you feel angry. I told you this and now you're hearing something different. I don't blame you or you're used to this and now you're not getting what you are used to. So it's okay to feel that way. And it's good that you said that, because we always tell our kids, I have young kids, so five, three, and one. And we tell, especially the five-year-old, three-year-old's not quite getting it yet, but we always say, you know what, you have the right to be angry. Like, you don't need to be mean, but you can be angry. Like, it's good that you're feeling this way. Yeah, actually, think a good, you know, the best thing we can do as parents is kind of translate their behavior language into words for them because they're not aware necessarily. So, you know, let's say your five-year-old hits your three-year-old. You could say, you know, five-year-old, I see that you're angry because your sister just took away your toy. It's okay to feel angry. It's not okay to hit her. And you can use your words and say, sister, I don't like it when you take away my toy. That's not OK. Right. And so we're like empowering our children what to do with anger. Anger doesn't have to be bad. It doesn't have to be dangerous. It works for us. It helps us have boundaries. It helps us be assertive. And it's there to give us wisdom. I love that. It's just a completely different way of looking at anger because a lot of times most people fear it, seeing it as a bad thing. You're kind of removing this stigma from it. So how can we begin to see it as a source of healing instead? Yeah, so I think the goal that we all can have is to heal our relationship with our anger. so, for example, for me, if I feel angry, the first step would be just to feel it in my body and to say, you know what, Bronwyn, it's okay to feel that anger right now. That's not bad. You don't have to dissociate. You don't have to talk yourself out of it. And this is how we dissociate with our intellect, you know, because it's in my body. And so I'm dissociating from my body into my mind saying, it's fine. It's no big deal. No, I don't have to do that. I can just feel angry and I can say, you know what, this anger is valid. And then I can say, hey, anger, what do you need right now from me? Do you need a boundary with this person? Do you need to hold them accountable and say, you know, hey, Travis, you said this and this is actually what's happened. What do need for me? Anger. And that way we can like heal our relationship with our anger. And I find that as we do that, we actually heal our relationship with ourselves. Very well said, I love that. I'm just taking it all in. There's a lot to learn here. So this might sound like a really, really stupid question, but I'm going to go for it anyways. So would you say like from the research you've done and all this stuff that you've learned about anger, would you say that there's such thing as an angry person? Yeah, I mean, I just, I don't like that phrase because we all have anger. And so when we say, Oh, John is an angry person. Then we're all assuming, yeah, he's the only angry person. Right. And so, right. That's like saying John's a breathing person. We all breathe and we all have anger and it kind of stigmatizes it more kind of like you're saying. I will say there are people who are, maybe what we call hotheads, know, they're just people who are very easily angered or easily triggered or whatever you want to use there. And, you know, honestly, those people kind of create the sensational angry person for the rest of us, you know, or maybe we had a parent who is just very volatile. And we think, that's anger. I don't want to be angry. But really, let's not use that person as a model of anger. That's not the right healthy anger we want. We want an anger that just says, hey, you know what? This isn't okay. That's me chaling my anger out of my body saying, hey, that's not okay. I don't like that. That's like someone who's really being responsible with their anger. A hothead kind of person is not being responsible with their anger. Yeah, I can see that. And I also agree that we need to remove like the labeling from it. Because I think we do that with everything though. We label too many things. I agree, yeah. And I would love to like for you to tell us kind of what that that first client patient experience looks like when someone comes into your office to see you. Yeah. Well, I will say that a lot of listening, a lot of asking like deep questions and believing my clients. And I think that that is kind of rule number one. Unfortunately, not all therapists seem to really believe their clients. That was definitely my experience on the client end. I didn't feel like my therapist believed me or trusted me. So, I mean, it's okay to challenge our clients. but we have to really lead with listening and believing them. And the same could be true said for a parent or a friend. It's okay to challenge people, but we lead with believing them and validating them and validating their feelings. Yeah, and it's, and I always hear these stories kind of going back to you, what you said about having to go through so many different therapists. I always hear these stories that it takes what four to five therapists to find the one that fits you. I lucked out and I found, I got along well with the first one I ever went to and he listened to me. So it was like, you know what, this is going to work out. This is like exactly what I'm looking for. Yeah, that is good. Yeah, I kind of feel like I learned how to be a therapist through what not to do and through all these therapists. then, you know, now I train other therapists and it's been really incredible. the person that went to therapy and took the notes instead of them taking notes on you. Yeah. It can be very traumatic to have you're in such a vulnerable place being so honest and open. And then this person is like talking you out of your feelings or they're not believing you or they're like, you know, second guessing you and it's, yeah, that's kind of like hitting you when you're down. Yes, for sure. And it's not easy to go into, you know, that office setting or wherever. And so as somebody you don't know, and just have that be that vulnerable, like it's, I remember the very first time that I went to their P session. I was like, I felt almost defeated after the first time. Like a sense of defeat because it's like I've never been that vulnerable. like in the, I mean it was like defeat, but it was like good. Like it was like, because I got a lot out of it. I hope that made sense. It does. I've heard the term recently, vulnerability hangover. And I think, you know, that can happen where someone's finally listening to you and you kind of like share so much. And then the next day you're like, did I overshare? Like that was crazy. What was I thinking? But you're so desperate because you haven't shared for so long because no one really listens to you. Yep, exactly. I like that the vulnerability hangover. And why do you think society teaches us to avoid or minimize negative feelings? Well, you know what's interesting? I just had a client recently tell me how her mom taught her and then of course I remember my dad said the same thing to me. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Right? Did you hear that as a kid? yeah, I've heard that plenty of times. Okay. And I thought, well, she told me that I'm like, oh yeah, I remember that. Who does that really work for? It's more like the, to me, it'd be more like if I sent to my kid, it'd work more for me because it's like, then I'll have to go and help them out with their problems. Yeah, it's like, I think it's really there for the parents. so, yeah, I think that's, you know, kind of the problem is our parents don't know what to do with our emotions, or they have so many of their own emotions that they're not knowing what to do with, they can't deal with ours. And so they teach us things like, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. And so we just learn, okay, I'll just hold it all inside. That won't... Mm-hmm. ever, right? Except me. Yeah, that's so true. I've never thought of it that way because it's like, it's one of those phrases that I've been told my whole life. So I've never really thought twice about it. But that completely makes sense. What role does shame play in keeping people stuck in cycles of depression and anxiety? Yeah, shame is another, it's not technically an emotion, but a feeling that is universal. But I really see shame as the enemy of humanity because, for a bunch of reasons. But I would say shame, so the difference between emotions and feelings. Feelings can be anything, it could be a bodily sensation, a headache is a feeling of tension, right? Emotions, you know, the word is emotion. And I believe emotions are designed to move us in some way. know, anger is there to catalyze us, to create a boundary, to be assertive, to bring about accountability. And all of our emotions are there to give us wisdom to move us forward in some kind of way. But shame is not an emotion. Shame doesn't do any of that. In fact, shame does the opposite. It actually makes us stuck. It causes us to just get absolutely stuck. There's no movement at all. And we kind of break down. Shame, know, babies are born into the world with the whole spectrum of emotions, including anger, but they don't have shame. Shame is not native to humans. Shame comes from parents first and foremost. And of course it can come from other kids and bullies and siblings and all those things too. But shame is always a socially taught feeling. It's not native to humans and there's nothing good about shame. It's just pure evil in my book because shame tells a child or an adult even, know, instead of saying, you know, Travis, you made a mistake and that's okay because that's how humans learn. is they make lots of mistakes and they learn from them. And that's awesome. Instead of teaching you, can be human. Shame says, you know, you made a mistake and you are a mistake. And so it's paralyzing to think that and to feel that. And so we'll do anything to avoid shame. it keeps us, that's why I'm saying it keeps us stuck. keeps us from being human, from learning how to just go through life and be on a learning curve and and ride those waves, you know? Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I just had this thought pop up in my head. I've always found it odd that like, you know, as a parent, lot of parents like teach their kids like, okay, well, you can't have a bad day. You can't be grumpy. You can't be angry. You can't feel all these emotions. But then as parents, We're feeling all these emotions too. And we have those moments where, you know, we show our anger, but then we're teaching our kids the exact opposite. And it's like, I've, I understand that more now as a parent than I did before, but it's, it's super odd that like, I hear these people that, like, you know, like I know that are saying to their kids, like, you can't feel that. You can't do that. Like, don't be angry. You can't be angry, but. at the same time they're being angry. Yeah. pretty hypocritical. And also, you I would say the reason why parents say that to kids is because if the kid's unhappy, they think it's a reflection of them and they feel like they're failing. And so it triggers shame for the parent. And you know what? That's actually a lie. Shame is always a liar because kids are humans and they're going to have good and bad days. They're going to be unhappy. They're going to be happy like It's not at all a reflection of the parent and we cannot take that personally and we have to give them that freedom to be their own autonomous self. That's really important. sure. And as you kind of hear all these stories from your clients, like how do you, like I'm sure there's a lot of tough things that you have to listen to. How do you keep yourself grounded? Yeah, well, I think a really big part of that is there's this invisible paradigm that I live by that I want everyone to live by and that is I am responsible to other people, but I'm never responsible for other people and I am responsible for me and that is the only person I'm responsible for. So when I'm with my clients, when I'm with a friend, when I'm with my child, when I'm with my whoever, I'm responsible to them, but not for them. And that I need to always have that boundary in place so I can feel people's feelings with them, but I'm not taking them on because they're not my feelings. They're those person's feelings. And that's really what anyone needs from anyone else is to feel with. But if the minute I start feeling responsible for someone, it actually hurts that person as much as me. It hurts both of us. That's a really good way to put it. I love the invisible paradigm. So when it comes to like, you you said you went through a depressive time. What tools and methods worked for you to kind of help you through that? Yeah, well, let's see. the two, had two major depressive episodes. The first one was what actually helped me out of it was going back to school, deciding to become a therapist because I think it gave me agency over my life. And I felt at that time like I had no agency. And so that kind of really solved that problem. The second time though, the reason I was depressed looking back now that I see clearly in hindsight was that I felt so much shame myself. And so that actually took me many years. I was depressed with that episode for years. And what healed me ultimately was gaining this new objectivity and being able to see with each person that created the shame for me. And there were multiple people during that time, seeing their own role, seeing that that was their shame and not my shame and that I was taking on their shame. And so I actually leave my listeners on my podcast in this exercise where I have them imagine, just close their eyes and imagine putting all that shame in a box and returning it to that person who gave them that shame and saying, here you go. You know what? This isn't mine. This is yours. And so I'm returning it to owner. And that's what I did with each one of the people who created all that shame for me is I was able to have that perspective. I did hold some of them accountable. I wrote one person a letter, an email where I just held her accountable. And I said, you know what? I realized that you're a bully and I don't want to hear back from you. This is a one way piece of communication. I just need to set the record straight. You're a bully. Shame on you. So So those things were very, very healing for me and I find them to be healing for my clients as well. Yeah, and I like that, like, because I think it's actually a thing to, when needed to actually confront those people that hurt you, like just, even if it's just to let them know, like you, you did this, like, and it's like you, you said, this is a one way communication. I don't want to hear back from you because you have to let those, the people that are bringing the negative into your life and shaming you. I don't believe you should have a relationship with them at all. The bullies. Yeah. And I had a thought and it will probably come back to me, but I'll move on to the next thing I was thinking about. uh What misconceptions do people often have about therapy or about what therapy should look like? Hmm. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I don't know exactly. I think some people that I found who come to me and don't stay with me are people who somehow think they can heal without feeling their feelings. So that's one misconception. I don't think that's possible. don't, you know, no one can heal you. You have to heal you. And that requires being fully you, meaning you need to feel your feelings, including your anger at your parents, at yourself, at everyone. It doesn't mean you're going to cut everyone off necessarily, but you have to be willing to feel those feelings. They are there and they need to be finally externalized out of our bodies so they don't stagnate inside of us, making us sick. And I find the best way to express those feelings, literally express them out of our bodies, is to put them into words. And we can do that in a fantasy letter that never gets sent. We can do that in a fantasy exercise where we are saying in fantasy what we wish we would have said to someone, or we can hold them really, truly accountable. Like the example I gave where I shared with one person how they were a bully for me. whatever that looks like, it releases the anger out of our body. Yeah, I love that. I can, sorry, my dog's barking in the background. And I can, I just want to say that I can totally relate to like, when you, when you mentioned that you need to be able to feel things, you can't get better until you do. I can attest to that a hundred percent because I've dealt with anxiety, depression for let's see, it's at least been the last 15, 16 years. But it wasn't until like the, I'd gone to therapy like once like years ago and then stopped going for years. And then it wasn't until like I really got it in my head and just said, you know what, this time I'm going to be more vulnerable. I'm actually, cause the first time around, like I didn't, wasn't doing all the work that I was asked to do. I was like, well, this paper's stupid. Like. I don't want to do that. I don't want to this thing out about my depression or rate my anxiety. But if I, without doing that work now, like I wouldn't be where I am today. And I just want to say to the audience that like it takes work. It's, it's not always easy. Yeah, I agree with that. second that. It's not easy, but it's good. And the results are absolutely worth it. Yes, for sure. I can say that I can now like start feeling anxious and I can just subconsciously like, okay, recognize that this is anxiety that I'm feeling that thought is not me. I can just push it out and I can just walk away. Now does it always happen like that? No, sometimes it takes a little bit more effort, but it's really easy for me to like get myself out of that anxious mode. Yeah, that's good. and For somebody that's listening that feels disconnected from their emotions, overwhelmed, anything that we've basically mentioned, how could they start healing? Yeah, well, I think I would start with just saying, you know what, I'm not going to look at my overwhelm right now or my intrusive thoughts or my, you know, unsolicited actions. I'm not going to judge these things. I'm just going to see them as a manifestation of that. You know, I have a lot going on inside of me. I a lot of feelings that I'm not allowing myself to feel. And I'm going to start by addressing the root instead of judging these symptoms. I'm going to go straight to the root and I'm going to move towards my feelings. And if there's shame there, I know that shame is a liar and I'm going to dislodge that shame because I'm human and I'm allowed to be human and make mistakes. I can have regret, but I don't ever need to feel shame. And I loved it. you brought up that it's, we're human and it's okay to be human. Like we don't need to feel like it's not. I think it goes back to something that was previously said a little, like a few minutes ago, is society teaches us that like we can't have these emotions. We have to be a specific way and walk a certain path. and my brain's all over the place. And without going, know, without, you know, violating any like HIPAA laws or whatever, is it possible for you to share a transformative story of a client that broke free from like chronic depression or anxiety through your approach? Yeah, I actually have a client who has given me permission to share her story. She actually had something even more severe than, you know, the proverbial depression, anxiety, she struggled with psychosis, and specifically with hallucinations. And so we treat people who have hallucinations, like, they're just like, monsters. And so she got treated very, very poorly in the mental health system as a young person. But when she came to me, she told me, you know, she didn't even tell me that much. It was probably on the second session that I met with her. And she told me about her hallucinations. And I said, you know, you're seeing images of an evil witch or soul-sucking dementors. And it just sounds like your brain might be trying to warn you about your mother. Like those sound like those are descriptions of how your brain sees your mother. And it was really validating for her because it was the first time anyone had said, yeah, your mother seems like a very evil person. And within a few months, she cut off her mom altogether and when she did that, and that's now maybe two and a half years ago, her hallucinations completely stopped. That is crazy. She's been off all the horrible medications she was on, because you're put on a lot of horrible medication for psychosis. And she's just the healthiest she's ever been in every way. Yeah, that's crazy that you were able to pinpoint something out and she disconnects from her mom. It's gone. It's amazing to me that with whatever trauma that her mom caused or whatever her mom did to her, that your brain can take that trauma and do all these crazy things with it. Her brain's trying to say like, cut her off. I just said, you need to trust your brain, like cut her off. And that's exactly what she needed to do. Yeah, and it's a whole other conversation. Trusting your body, like you're the one who knows it. Yes. Well, I mean, I could also share personally about three years ago, I cut off my father and I had, until that point, I had insomnia for about 30 years of my life. And the minute I finally held him accountable, my insomnia stopped and now I sleep like a baby. I take naps. I can sleep anywhere. I can sleep like I always thought my husband could sleep anywhere anytime. I'm that person now. Yeah, that's that's so crazy to me like and I'd love for you to tell like how was that heart a hard thing to do like at the very beginning? it wasn't hard when it got to that point, but it took me 30 years to see how wicked he really is to really see him for who he really is. So yes, it was very, hard. Um, you know, I, I very much regret, you know, even my daughter would say, you know, he's, he's horrible and I'd, I'd excuse him. I defend him. I'd say, Oh, you know, he has a good heart. And then I kind of like, finally got to this point where I'm like, no, he doesn't. There's no good heart. and yeah, and so that was me connecting with my anger at him finally. And I gave him an ultimatum. held him accountable in an email. And I said, either you're going to acknowledge these things that I have documented that you've actually said and done, and you're going to either acknowledge them and apologize and become a safe person or there's no more relationship. And he decided to not apologize and not acknowledge those things. it's been, like I said, three years. But yeah, so it took 30 years and then it took just a moment, you know, finally. But what I was gonna say is I think insomnia was little Bronwyn saying to me every night, wake up, what are you doing? Why are you still allowing this toxic person? in your life. think insomnia is our inner child trying to shake us awake. Yeah, and I could see that. it's, you say that and like these people that I know that suffer from insomnia, I was like, okay, well this makes sense to why this is happening. They have some kind of something going on that is telling them to take a look at their body. But instead, instead of like digging in and finding that root cause, we hand out medication. Yeah, yeah, and I think really we are betraying ourselves and our bodies saying stop betraying me and we're not listening. We're dragging ourselves and it's really unfortunate. Yeah, it's what I like to call the band-aid method. And it happens way, way too much. Yeah. Uh, yeah, and did hear this thing once that, who was I talking I can't remember exactly who I was talking to, but I was saying like, you I need to get rid of the negative people in my life, whether it's family or friends or whoever it is. And that person's like, well, it's, you know, it's really hard sometimes when it's family because you have a different relationship with your family member or loved one than you do like a friend. And so I like to, I actually like to hear these stories of like, no, it's possible to cut off a family member when it's needed. Oh, it is needed often. And the thing with an ultimatum is you're not cutting it off. I mean, I technically didn't cut it off. said, dad, I would love to have a relationship with you. You said there needs to be change and I want that relationship, but without it, it's, yeah. So I don't feel bad at all. It's on him. The ball is in his court and he's the one missing out because I'm a pretty awesome daughter, but. I can see that he is missing out and I'm not just saying that to get brownie points. I can always tell when people bring a good vibe to the show. I can just imagine that because I'm thinking if I had to cut off my own parent, that just seems really tough. So I do applaud you for doing what you have to do. I think like that ultimatum though is giving whoever that person is an opportunity. So, you in the 12 step, they talk about, you know, if you're a codependent person, so you're in a relationship with someone who's active in their addiction, you detach. And when you detach, you allow that person to hit bottom. you know, hitting bottom. is a gift because when we hit bottom, we can finally wake up. There's no guarantee that we'll wake up, but when you give someone that gift of hitting bottom, it makes it more likely. And so it's giving that person an opportunity to change, to be a better person. Yeah, I agree and that's the unfortunate side of it. It often takes hitting bottom to actually realize that, oh, I have a problem. I need to get help. Yes. I can attest to that for too many times in my own life. That would be like a whole other podcast though. yeah, yeah, I bet Let's see, I honestly think you've answered like everything. And you answered the majority of what I was a lot like within just different segments, but I love everything that you've brought up. uh So one kind of last generalized question here and then kind of two follow ups. When it comes to mental health, what you feel is the biggest stigma. Yeah, I mean, I think it's changing. I think, you know, with my daughter's generation now, everyone goes to therapy. It's normal. So that's cool. But yeah, I think that we do judge ourselves and others and it's like, why? We're all human. We're all broken. We're all in this together. Let's just let go of the judgment and let's not assign, you know, any kind of judgment to symptoms. Whatever what's going on in our life is a symptom of something deep. and that we don't know what that deep thing is. Yeah, very true. And that made me, sorry, it made me think of one more thing. What do you think society could do better to help those that are going through a mental health crisis? Um, yeah, maybe I like when people just talk about their own journeys. and it's very inspirational and especially, I think that de-stigmatizes it too, didn't to learn, you know what? You know, I had insomnia for 30 years. I was so depressed. I had a suicide attempt, whatever we're human. This is normal. yeah, and it's, yeah, that's, that's great. Cause I, I wholeheartedly agree with you. And I think it's important to, it's important to get your story out there. Cause I also think that it makes people feel like, you know what? I'm not the only one that's dealing with this because through all these mental health things, like you feel alone all the, a lot. And it's like, you think you're the only one, but it's not true. yeah. It's so not true. In fact, now that I'm on this side of the spectrum as a therapist, you know, when a client tells me, everyone else has it together, I'm the only one. like, oh, honey, you couldn't be more wrong. You should see what I see on this end of the thing, of, you know, the call. Yeah, and I when I like go on to you know, my therapy appointments I see all these different age groups, know from 10 year olds to 50 60 year olds like, you know all different age groups and it's like, you know, it's not that I wish like having to go through to have mental health problems to anybody. But it makes me, when I walk in the door sometimes it makes me feel like, it's almost like a relief to see that like, okay, somebody else is struggling. And it's not that I wish to struggle because that sounds, I don't mean that to sound bad. It's sounding a lot worse. what you mean. Absolutely. Yeah, when I was depressed, I mean, if I learned on People magazine that some famous celebrity had bipolar, I felt like, okay, cool. Like she was bipolar, I have depression, awesome. Like I'm not the only one. It felt great. Yeah. somebody else is struggling with me. Yes. And so where can people find you? Yeah, so my podcast is Angry at the Right Things and I have a YouTube channel which is just my name, Bronwyn Schwaggart, and then I'm on some social media stuff too. Awesome. And last thing here, we kind of just discussed an array of topics. Is there anything that you'd like to bring up that we didn't discuss? I would just say as like a kind of endpoint, would say, you know, being true to ourselves is so not selfish. And for a period of my life, I did think that was like a selfish thing. think maybe my religious, you know, upbringing kind of put that in that category. But someone who is true to themselves actually becomes a flourishing human being. And I have beautiful big trees in my yard. Two of them are like a hundred feet tall. And I look at those trees and I think, you know what? These trees are flourishing and a flourishing human like a tree changes the whole world. mean, those trees create habitat for thousands of creatures. They create shade for lots of humans. They create fruit, some of them, if they're fruit trees. So When we flourish, that actually makes the whole world benefit. So it's not selfish at all. I totally agree with you and it's... I... Those are like very well said because it's like... And I feel like... I'm trying to think of the best way to put this. Until you're true to yourself, like you... You're not gonna be... Or you're not gonna show the full potential of the person that you can be. Like... It's... I feel like... For the longest time I was living in this... um kind of place where I was like you know I feared like being open about who I am as a person and it like I was I've always been a peacemaker and I've always been like not always wanted to speak my mind but lately like more of a personal level like I'm not afraid to be me I'm not afraid to tell somebody like no you know what that hurt my feelings or kind of tell them a different opinion than what they want to hear. It doesn't always turn out well, but it's like, I'm being me. Yes, that's right. That's exactly right. You're fully embodying yourself and that is what the world needs more of. Well Bronwyn, thank you so much for spending some time tonight with me. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. It's, I admire the work you're doing and I've learned a few things about anger that I've, from a perspective that I've never even thought of. So thank you. And just keep doing the work that you're doing. Thanks to everybody who listened. If you resonated with this podcast, please share it and hit the subscribe button. And thanks again until next time.