Are You Successful… or Just Exhausted? The Truth About Founder Burnout

Are you successful… or just exhausted?

In this episode of Overcome With Travis White, we unpack the truth about founder burnout and why so many high performers feel anxious, depleted, and disconnected — even after achieving success.

If you’ve ever questioned whether your success is costing you your peace, this conversation will hit home. Founder burnout doesn’t always look like collapse — sometimes it looks like achievement paired with chronic stress, panic attacks, brain fog, inflammation, and emotional disconnection.

We explore how hustle culture fuels founder burnout, why high performers struggle to slow down, and what happens when ambition overrides alignment. From breathwork and mindfulness to lifestyle shifts and purpose-driven work, we discuss how to move from exhaustion to coherence — mentally, physically, and emotionally.

Because the real question isn’t just “Are you successful?”
 It’s: Are you successful… or just exhausted?

What We Discussed:

• The hidden signs of founder burnout
• Why high performance can turn into self-sabotage
• Panic attacks and chronic stress in entrepreneurs
• Treating root causes vs. masking symptoms
• The connection between inflammation, mindset, and burnout
• Science meeting ancient wisdom
• Rebuilding success through alignment instead of hustle
• How purpose changes your mental health

Learn More:

Connect with Alessandro Grampa:
 https://wholegrainwisdom.com

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https://overcomepod.com

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Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to Overcome, a mental health podcast. I'm your host, Travis White. This is a place for you to share your mental health stories. I'm very excited for tonight's guest. I will be speaking with Alessandro Grampa. Alessandro is a serial impact entrepreneur on a mission to bridge ancient wisdom and modern science for peak performance. He is the founder of Whole Grain Wisdom. Alessandro, welcome to the show. Going pretty well. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to speak with me. my story. And without wasting any time, I'm just going to hand the microphone over to you, let you tell us about your journey. you said in the intro, I'm a serial entrepreneur. actually started my first company when I was still 19 in bachelor. despite the, the, the, the usual stories, I didn't drop out of college. I'm Italian. So my mother would never have allowed all of that. and, and, and actually that's kind of also the story of, of the mental health journey in the sense that for me, more than the mental health topic per se, it's been like, like a real healing and transfer in their transformation journey. he all started when during my second company, actually, it was becoming so stressful that I, that I started to develop a ton of panic, panic attacks and anxiety. I've been always a very negative person. I've been always complaining a lot. And I used to think that that complaining. was kind of like an objective way of looking at reality. Like, how can you not complain when things don't work and coming from Italy and Europe, you know, there are a lot of things that don't work over there. And so the kind of like you're surrounded by people complaining and that brought me to building companies. So the good thing is at some point I said, okay, let's stop complaining. I need to do the things myself and let's fix it. And I started fixing them, but. You know, with this type of mindset, every challenge was just enormous. Every little thing was just overwhelming. And so the panic attacks started to become quite daily or even sometimes more than daily. And fortunately, one day I had the intuition that I had to do something, of course, to fix it. And I went on Spotify and I looked for anxiety relief, breath work, meditation. Somehow, somehow I don't still quite. know how, but somehow I found the right song or the right meditation that brought me into breath work for the very first time in my life. And to be honest, after doing that, those exercises daily, even sometimes more than once in six months, I never had any single panic attack every my life. So that worked, but that also brought me to what I call, let's say, opening the bubble of the mind. So I became Buddhist because after six months, started to ask myself, okay, if this is working so well, and I didn't really know the difference between breath work and meditation. thought at the time, I thought they were the same. And so I said, okay, I want to learn how to meditate better. And who knows meditation? Well, the first and only person or category of people that I could imagine were the Buddhists for some reason. And so I went on Google and searched Buddhist center in the city where I was living. And I got into the Sangha, which is the meditation group in that city. And from there, all of the Eastern philosophy world started to open up for me. was a beautiful experience. For seven years, I practiced daily meditations on the Buddhism schools. The one that I practiced for long time, it's a lot of mental visualization. It's a little bit different from Vipassana, for example. don't know if maybe some of the audience would have had an experience on Vipassana, which is like just standing quiet and not thinking and looking at something. In this case, you actually really build a norm of castles in your head and it helps you project yourself into that vision. And so yeah, that was the very beginning of my journey. I have three other bubbles, two other bubbles, which is the body and the spirit, let's say. So happy to discuss more if you want. That's great. once you really dive into breath work, it does some amazing things. Like I don't, I, yeah. very first thing that everybody expects you to do is breathing and then crying. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, and it's like one of those things that like, I feel like kind of from like, I'm trying to think of how to say this. I almost feel like I took breath work for granted before I really started doing it. Like I don't do it a whole ton, but there's times, there's moments where I need to pause and be like, you know, I'm overly anxious. I need to take a few deep breaths to calm myself. And three years ago, me, like I would have said no. It's crazy because a lot like all of us think like when you say when you talk about breath for the first time to anyone that never heard about it is like, what does it even mean? mean, I breathe every single day. Yeah, but are you doing it consciously? That's the real question. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. So you've built multiple successful companies. What did success mean to you then, and how has that definition evolved? a lot for sure. I started my first companies because I wanted to do something big. And as I said, like I was complaining a lot. So I used to really always look at the, the half empty glass and try to optimize from there. So it was always an external perspective and kind of like chasing the external, you know, in a sense it was validation. I probably must most most of it unconscious because I will always worked as an impact entrepreneur. So for me, it was always in my mission to help other people, right? I didn't, I never really wanted to do it for money only, but money was an inevitable outcome of success anyway. And the challenges there were that of course, when you try to do something from the outside in, You always project yourself as something that you're going to get there in the future. And you constantly have like a bar that you put for yourself, but every time that you get near there or even achieve it, then you, you just keep pushing it forward and forward and forward. So at some point you just get to a point where he's like, okay, what I'm, what I'm even doing here, like, where is the finish line? He was supposed to be there. years ago and I'm still here chasing and running. Why the heck am I running? And so all of these plus, you know, some additional challenges, as I told you, the mental part, the body part during COVID that my body completely shut down because of the lockdowns. And that brought me into the world of biohacking and reconnecting to nature and all of these understanding and ancient wisdom of we are perfectly already as we are. We just need to like, are beings evolved in nature for millions of years. lived outdoors. And then just in the last 150 years, 200 years, we've been literally pushed into four walls and a ceiling with artificial lighting and completely disconnected from the rhythm of the sun. And so all of this stuff is what actually causes mental diversity and divergency. Because I was a DHD and I started like a year ago. when I started the research on the scientific basis for what I'm doing here now at Holgen Wisdom. And what I realized is that 73 % of entrepreneurs are actually neurodivergence. So it means that three out of four of all these entrepreneurs are black sheep in the room. They think differently, they are weird. But most people think that, you you get ADHD because It's something that you're going to keep for all your life. It's not true. ADHD is actually an overstimulation of a lot of things among which electromagnetic frequencies that we are constantly bombarded in the indoor artificial environment. Since I'm here, and you can see my background, this is not fake. I'm living Bali now in Indonesia, and I wake up with the sun and I go to sleep when the sun sets. And I don't have ADHD anymore. I don't have negative thoughts in my mind. Of course, I do a lot of other things. I have my own routines. I do a lot of sports and so on and so forth. But just the fact that I'm not constantly bombarded by all of these artificial stimuli, my mind quiet. So why are we bringing all of this conversation into the medical kind of perspective when it's actually a lifestyle discussion that we should have? yeah, for sure. it's like, it's those moments, you know, when I, when I'm on my phone a lot, I can tell difference when I put it down for a few hours. Like it's things just change. It's like, I stopped comparing myself to others. I, you know, I actually pay attention to what's going on around me. Whereas like, and I know I'll admit that there's moments where I'm absolutely horrible. What is your, just curious what is your current like mindfulness or meditation practice look like day to day? As I said before, it's been many years that I practice Buddhism meditation. The specific school that I'm part of is Vajrayana. In Buddhism, there are three different levels or schools. I'm part of what is defined as the highest way, the diamond way. And that brought me to master a little bit. I would definitely not call myself a master meditator, but I definitely learned how to manage the visualization part of the practice. And so what I do now is, first of all, I wake up and I do breath work, 20 minutes for cycles of repeated breath work exercises with, you know, holding the breath and then getting completely empty and then going into apnea and go like loving the emptiness that you create not only within your head, but also in your body because you're completely empty of air. And then after that, that basically puts me into a higher vibration of state, both my brain waves and the electromagnetic frequency of my heart and so on and so forth. And when I'm that state, that's when I do the visualization meditations that helps me project a lot of what I want to achieve, what I want to do, who I want to become, et cetera, et cetera. And that's pretty much my daily morning activity. then probably the biggest routine that I implemented from one and a half years since I left Europe is living outdoors, which doesn't seem like a routine, but I can immediately notice when I spend time too much indoors and maybe, I don't know, like I fly back to Europe, I'm Italian, so sometimes I go back. And when I spend the time indoors in artificial lighting, I immediately feel the difference, immediately. Yeah, I can only imagine. I think honestly, your lifestyle, being more outdoors and natural light sounds fantastic. to actually get there also with indoors. Okay. Let's be clear. You don't necessarily need to do, you know, like kind of, drastically lifestyle change of living your country, your family, and so on and so forth. You can just, first of all, replace the LEDs and the ugly lamps in your house. You can put some proper red light therapy, you know, some kind of work like that. You can do a lot of Sona that helps you a lot instead of getting the... the heat and the frequencies from the sun, you can get it from the heat, it's the same. You can do a lot of things. You can ground yourself with the grounding muds. mean, there are different tools. If anyone is interested, they can definitely go into the quantum biology part of all of this conversation. And there are many hacks that you can do even if you're not living in the tropics, let's say. I've heard a little bit about like, you know, different things you can do to ground yourself. There are actually a lot more things to do than I would have ever thought. you a little bit of context, we are used to, like we are taught that we have one brain and that one brain is in our heads, right, in the skull. That's not true. We actually have, from a neurological perspective, we actually have three brains. One is in the head where the highest density of neurons is, but then we have neurons in the heart and neurons in the gut. And... The electromagnetic frequency field developed by the heart center and by the solar plexus, which is the gut, is actually way more powerful. We are talking about hundreds of times more powerful than the frequency in the brain. So from an electrical point of view, it's actually way more powerful to think with the heart. That's when you get into the more timeless wisdom kind of conversations and they tell you, be more centered and think with your heart and so on and so forth. This is exactly what it means. Like it means bringing your consciousness down from the pure rational thinking into the more intuitive and emotional thinking. And this frequency that the heart emanates in herds is exactly the same one of the electromagnetic field of the heart of the herd of this planet. We are completely in sync. So that's what why grounding it makes sense. Because when you ground yourself, you're basically reconnecting yourself to the main socket of energy for your body and your body remembers, wait a second, I'm part of planet Earth. Maybe I should rethink with that cycle. Yeah, so it's all very interesting. So I want to get kind of more to like the, you know, the science meets spirituality side of things here. How do you bridge these two worlds? Like, you know, keeping wisdom grounded in data without losing the spiritual essence of it. is the combination of these three main major experiences that made myself like that may change completely my life. One, it was the mind, the physical body, the second one. And then the spiritual, I'll say the energetic part started actually to come out two years ago where my wife and I got married in Columbia in the jungle with shamans. It was not the very first time that we had to work with shamans. We also had in the past a lot of ancient healing and and plant medicine. We work with acupuncture, Chinese traditional medicine, et cetera, et And when the shamans in Latin America, they were teaching me about their system of reality, like what is existence for them? What is the nature of the universe? They were telling me stuff that it was exactly the same of what the llama in Buddhism, so from the East, was telling me. And then I started studying quantum physics and I realized, wait a second, quantum physics is also saying exactly the same thing. So these three parts of the world, let's say completely distant from each other, saying the same thing. And suddenly my mind was like, okay, wait a second, let me connect the dots. Here we are telling the same story, just in different languages. And this is how I can make sense of it. Because if you look into quantum physics and the science of it, they are proving and they are telling you our energetic nature before chemistry, before the materialization of matter. It comes from quantum physics, from a scientific understanding now. But the shamans knew this for thousands of years. The Buddhists and the Hinduists, the yoga masters and the traditional Chinese medicine in China. They knew this since thousands of years. So we're just repeating the same story, just with different languages. So brought up the kind of the next question that I'm going to, this was mentioned in your bio, I believe you mentioned the word quantum. So what does it, and I, you pointed this out, but I don't really, I want to get a better understanding of it. What does it mean to be quantum founder? me, once you understand the nature of reality, then let's say, because I've been always an entrepreneur and I believe that entrepreneurs are the backbone of society, of economy. I mean, if you can impact one entrepreneur that then is going to have, you know, hundreds of employees. hundreds families connected to them and all of the other stakeholders and kind of like expanded networks of these people. just by affecting one person, you can actually affect thousands of them. So that's my vision. And with the work that I do at Holger & Wisdom, we are training the entrepreneurs of today to become a new generation of founders, what I call the quantum founders, which are people that are completely driven by the inner truth and alignment and coherence instead of chasing the external validation, chasing the external milestones and all of these kind of like alienating issues or KPIs that we set for ourselves. And when we are aligned, when we are actually doing the things that we are the most excited about, we are actually creating the best version of this planet. It's as simple as that. Because if I'm acting on my highest passion and you're acting on your highest passion, together we're gonna be happy and we're gonna understand each other because we're gonna see so much more commonalities instead of diversities, instead of distances. So there will be no conversation, no discussion that can convince us otherwise that we are different, that we need to fight each other. Because at the same time, we are all chasing happiness. We are all chasing the best version of ourselves. Yeah, and to be what you just said, it all comes back to living life with a purpose. Because once you find that purpose, things start to change. society stopped teaching us how to find purpose many, many years ago because they understood that it was counterproductive for the industrial economy. Because if you know what your purpose is, you may not probably go into... do certain jobs, certain, you're probably never gonna accept certain conditions that they put you through just because you need to make a living. Because when you actually act on your highest potential and your highest excitement, which means following your purpose, you automatically discard all of the non-functioning activities around you and you just focus, laser focus on what you need to do and everything starts to happen. So there are stories and stories and stories and examples of people that didn't have anything. They didn't have any money. They thought that, you know, we are you. used to think that without money we cannot live. But by only the fact that they were acting on their highest purpose, everything happened somehow. Maybe they didn't buy certain things with money. They received it in another way. other exchanges, you know, we used to barter for thousands of years, we invented money relatively recently, but the exchange of energy and all of this flow, let's say, it happened because they were acting on the IOS purpose. very well said. I love it. So now I kind of get back into kind of the mental health side of things here. How do you how do you recognize when high performance starts crossing into self-sabotage? You kind of mentioned some of this at the very beginning. The problem is that for yourself, it's very hard to recognize when you're getting into burnout because it's a slow process that happens mostly and primarily in your head and it convinces you of the opposite. So let me try to explain it a little bit clearer. Your brain, okay, so your conscious mind is actually responsible and has one sole goal, which is to keep you alive. And this means that even if there is something potentially better, but unknown, the brain will always choose what is known over what is not unknown, even if the known is actually bad for you. So what happens in a classical burnout situation? You work hard. because you believe in what you're doing, of course, but then you completely forget that forgetting to your goals, you need to be in the highest frequency, the highest potential, the highest state of mind and not in the deprived, tired, perished state of mind. But we live in a society where hassle is better. So the more you work, the more you do hard work and the better, the more... likely your success will be. This is not actually true because if you work so hard that your bodily functions start to decrease in terms of quality and efficacy, then you're going to be sleep deprived. going to be cognitively deprived. You're going to be physically deprived in such a way that you don't even notice when you're making bad decisions. So this is the real problem and the real trick because until you don't get better, you don't notice the difference. I always make the example, think about the very last time that you came back from a long vacation, long vacation, mean, at least one week full off. The very first week after that, you're gonna be in your highest potential because you're gonna have your battery recharged, your brain is focused and somehow, you can get your job done in half the time that you used to take before vacations. And somehow that quality of the output is even better. It's like unexplainable. And so you think, wonderful. I can do double the things because I took half the time. And so you start adding, adding until you're going to go still slowly like into battery deprivation, let's say, because you never have enough time to recharge your batteries. And again, without noticing, Two, three months later, you're back again into the burnout cycle. And you don't notice, it's a constant repeat cycle, unfortunately. Yeah, that is for sure. It's very true. feel like as a society, we kind of struggle to slow down. We think that you have to push through this, you have to do this, you have to do this to be successful. How do you think you convince a fast moving mind that stillness is productive? only way is to go deeper and to understand the lie that we are all living. In the sense, I don't want to be like, you know, the kind of matrix conversation, but the reality is that we are constantly pushed to work harder so that we can avoid to deal with the real problems, the real... root causes, right? And, you know, if you go into the normal traditional Western medicine, it's all about treating the symptoms and not treating the causes, right? All of your trauma, all of your wrong beliefs and limiting beliefs, they actually reside in the subconscious mind, which physically you can map them into your facial tissue, which is, you know, the collagen matrix that completely wraps every organ, every bone, every single thing in your body. and all of the stored wrong energy is there. And that are all the knots that are adding up to clog your pipe of water that flows, that's the flow of energy of your body. So the problem is if you don't acknowledge that you're primarily energy and secondarily as a consequence, you are chemistry and not the opposite, then you will understand that if your energy, and you have blocks of energy in your body that prevent you to do and be the best version of yourself, you need to unblock those them before than doing anything else. It's like you're trying to hike a mountain with a backpack full of rocks and you're not even aware that you have a backpack of rocks. So the very first step is slow down one second, hear me out. You have a backpack of rocks and this is scientifically proven and this is thousand and thousand of years proven by the ancient wisdom. Every single tradition in the world told you and taught us that until you don't remove your emotional trauma, your backpack of rocks, you're never gonna go forward. That's the job of our life. Like that's literally the single most important thing that we need to do in this life because it's part of our purpose. Removing the rocks that we've been given to work with. So in order to do the job, you cannot be in a state of deprivation because otherwise you're literally trying to extinguish fire with gasoline. It doesn't make sense. You need to first lower the fire, lower the inflammation in your body. And then when the inflammation is low enough and all of this stuff, you can actually do it with the chemical part. Like you can optimize your diet, you can sleep better, you can reduce your stress. All of this stuff is chemical. But when the very first part of the journey is done, which is lowering your inflammation, then the next job is removing the inflammation from the root, which is energetic. And to do that, you need to work in the coherence state of mind, not with the incoherence. When your brain has a vibration, because it thinks certain things, but your heart is another vibration because it thinks another thing and your solar plexus, your gut is in another yet vibration because it thinks yet another thing. And this is again, scientifically all proven into the, you know, bioenergetics work that is being done right now. You are in a state of what is called uncoherence because you are emitting different signals. It's like you are kind of like, imagine that you are a speaker. that is trying to play three different songs at the same time. It doesn't make sense. It's that simple. Focus on realigning one song, one speaker, and you will see that it will be a beautiful music after all. Yeah, I agree. And I, can fully relate to what you're saying. Cause last year I had to, that's what I worked on was getting rid of the inflammation in my body. It was like for years I've, I've suffered from seizures and you know, it's kind of goes back to modern medicine, Western medicine, whatever you want to call it. just put a bandaid on it and like, take this pill. Okay, we're not sure what's wrong with you. You don't have this. You don't have this. You could possibly have this. So I was like, you know what? I need to something else. I went to a functional medicine doctor and that was the first time I got my body looked at as a whole and connected the dots. And it was the best thing I ever did. The beginning of my journey for the physical body started exactly the same. Many years ago, I worked with the shaman and acupuncture for six months and he almost managed to get me better. But as soon as I got back to Europe, I fell sick again. And it wasn't until COVID hit that my body shut down and I finally managed to go. Actually, it was a tele, tele kind of telemedicine visit. I didn't go physically, but I managed to get the appointment with a functional doctor. He looked me as a whole, you said, like holistically, not just the single problem and the single pill to relieve it. And he told me, look, Ale, stop wasting your money and time on old diagnostics, weird stuff, medicines, whatever. Just take out gluten and lactose of your life for days and see what happens. For the very first time in my life, after 15 years, I woke up morning after five days not taking gluten and I didn't have brain fog. And I realized that the cause of my depression and the cause of my constant chronic negativity, you know I told you that I was complaining a lot, it was because of gluten. And I stopped gluten for many years and it all went well. I tried many times to reintegrate it and it was always triggering me the same problems until a couple of months ago, I actually started working with energy release and somatics experiencing. And I finally completely disconnected, you know, the energetic tie, the quantum entanglement part between the gluten molecule and my reaction in the body. Now I can eat bread and gluten, of course, high quality, but still. I can edit and feel perfectly aligned. Yeah, and it's we so mostly like it. That's what we did. We took out. Um, glue and at least in our home, like I'll I'll eat it outside of our home, but in our home was we're pretty much gluten free here and there. We'll have something for the kids, but my wife has, um, another medical condition that makes it so she needs to be gluten free. And, but then we also got rid of like the, the sugars. Like we use substitute sugars and it's helped out a ton. Like just by doing those two things, I can see a huge change in like the way I felt. It's amazing that more people are not like figuring this out and it's just like, oh, I'll take that. I'll take that band-aid. oh back to the ancient way. Sometimes also bringing back the negatives of the ancient way, because I mean, there is a reason why we are into modern life, because the previous one didn't work perfectly, because if it did work perfectly, we would still be living in that way, and we clearly aren't. So the important work always, and this is again going back to the ancient wisdom, is balance, right? The extremism is never good for no one. The key always stands in the balance, in the yin and the yang, the Shiva and the Shakti. So there is a lot of good things from the past that we are rediscovering. And we need to keep bringing forward the good things of the modern, because also they were good. But there are also so many externalities of the new. that they absolutely work against us. And first and foremost is thinking that we are chemical first and energetic second, or even forgetting that we are energetic. The reality is that E equal MC square. This is the formula from Einstein. energy equal mass to speed of light to the second. energy and mass is the same thing. is just on the opposite side of the formula, but it's the same thing. I absolutely love it. So, gotta go back to science meets ancient wisdom. Why do think many founders are turning towards spirituality and consciousness work now? because they're having a similar story to mine. They chase the dream, that dream brought them until a certain point, but then they realized that that point wasn't definitely the end goal. And that point definitely didn't make them happy, which is what we all want at the end of the day. You can be as rich as you want, but if you're not happy, you're still miserable. So. That's it, basically. Like we all want happiness. There is a huge movement in the world happening for many reasons that I don't necessarily need to discuss now, but we are all awakening, let's say, to this deeper meaning of life. And we just realized that the current tools that we have available are no longer bringing us to the end result that we want. So we are all looking for additional tools. that can bring us a little bit forward, a little bit forward. And one way, or actually probably the only way to really get there until let's say to the end of the journey is to really acknowledge all of these energetic worlds, all of the quantum and act aligned to that. Because something is to read on the books that E equal MC square, something else is to live it. Something else is to know it internally. and know that because your energy, your fluid, because your energy, your genetic expression is not given, is not a fact. I remember when I was a teenager, my parents telling us, yeah, because this happened in our life and this is because of the DNA and the genetics of our family, so this is gonna happen to you as well. This is not true. Genetics already proved it. mean, we discovered epigenetics, we understood that 90 % of our gene expression is actually a result of our epigenetics, which is the environment and the lifestyle that we live. And now scientists are realizing, wait a second, it's not 90%. It's actually 100%. Why? Because the molecule that connects the two letters of the DNA, the two strands, is an hydrogen molecule. And that hydrogen molecule acts in a quantum way, which means that according to consciousness, it can flip one way or another and cause genetic mutations. So wait a second. Now quantum biology, so science, is actually proving that we can change the genetic expression based on consciousness, based on our mindset, based on what we think. So you see where are we going? Like science is going, it wanted to go so much into understanding how things worked and completely rejecting the idea of religious understanding and spiritual understanding. until the very same point where they said, wait a second, they were right. We just now understood how they really works. Very cool. There's like so much you could get into with this life. So if you could go back to your 19 year old founder self, what wisdom would you share about success and mental health? would simply say... Spend as much time as needed to understand what are the things that get you to the highest level of excitement and keep doing those ones and keep discarding the ones that don't bring you to the same level of excitement. I was trained in a way, in a mindset where first is work and then is pleasure. The problem is that reality doesn't work that way. the way that reality works is that when you do the things that you pleasure, which doesn't mean the bad things, okay, those are momentary pleasures. I'm talking about long-term, sustainable, high excitement activities. And when you do them all day long, as much as you can, then automatically you get your work done. Faster, better, highest quality. than any other way doing them in another different state of mind. Yeah, and I feel like we're taught that like big time in the US. It's just like, feel like from, you know, starting school the whole time, it's like we're being designed to work that eight to five job. And yeah, exactly. No, no, it's true. It's true. in the US, there is the lowest amount of unpaid vacation leave days in the world. And now the question to anyone doing this is, If you knew that being in the best state of mind, which means also being rested, being calmer and being relaxed, is going to bring you to better results, more money as a consequence as well, and doing this all with pleasure, wouldn't you do so? That's it. So then focus on the highest excitement activities and try to slowly because of course, I mean, it takes time. mean, it took me 12 years to get where I am today. So I'm not preaching for a easy swallow pill and everything is gonna be perfect. It's a lot of work. But the way is recognizing that when you are in your highest excitement, everything happens faster, better, easily. And as a result, you are more successful. So you don't need to rushed and hard worked and, you know, burned out for achieving the same results, because if there is a faster way, why wouldn't you do it? Exactly. And it comes, I think it kind of comes full circle back to what we discussed the very first is finding your passion. It starts with that because you cannot know what is your purpose if you wouldn't be doing your highest excitement activities and you wouldn't know what other highest excitement activities you should follow if you didn't know what's your purpose, right? Where are you going? What's your direction? And. curiosity like when you were 19 what was what was the very first uh company that you started? Suppershare, which was uh before Airbnb experiences came out. It was a way for hosts to open their houses and kitchens and let people and guests from the outside come in and eat at their table. So we wanted to build a community around home restaurants and around the fact that if you could travel and meet the locals and exchange... energy exchange, wisdom exchange experiences, that would be an amazing experience and a life-changing experience for your journey and travels. That's really cool. Like it's a really interesting way to like meet new people and have new experiences. It's really cool. Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Well, you've answered everything that I had on my plate, so uh I just have a few follow-up questions here. Where can people find you? wisdom.com and they will find me there and find the work that we are bringing forward for entrepreneurs and in general high achievers. So anyone that is really doing high-stake work and they really want to reconnect with the true selves and, they don't necessarily, you know, follow super specific scientific protocols. know, all of the world of biohacking is great, but most of them are still forgetting that. we are not chemical first, we are energetic first. And then they still want something more grounded than the traditional spiritual conversation because of course sometimes you also feel like, what are we even talking about here? So when we are bringing these two worlds together with coherence and we're building protocols for people to get to the best cells and the highest potential in really, really fast processes because you know, all of what I'm saying, I learned it by myself and all of what I'm saying is not new. I'm not inventing anything. There is no new trademarks or kind of like, you know, branded keywords that I'm using. All of what I'm doing is just reconnecting the dots and everyone, everybody can do it, but it takes a lot of time. So if you want to get to the point, you know, to the highest level, potential level and do this fast, then we can work together. I love it. And last thing is we covered a lot of ground in what we discussed. Is there anything you'd like to bring up that we did not bring up? like the, kind of distilled me through the different questions, all of the wisdom that I collected over the years. So I can only just remind and repeat again, follow your highest excitement and everything and trust the method, let's say, because from there you're going to be in a state what the neuroscientists would call a higher state of consciousness that is going to automatically bring you and tell you and show you what to do when you need to do it exactly the right specific time. You don't need to do anything else than that. It's pure serendipity, if you will. said I absolutely love it and Alessandro thank you so much for spending some time with me. I admire what you're doing and admire the stuff that you had to overcome to get to this point and I'm really jealous that you're somewhere warm right now with 12 hours of sunlight. it's a rubber band. The more that you pull it to the negative and then the more that it swings back into the positive. And right now I really, really am in the best shape and state of mind of my life and I cannot be happier than that. Thank you so much again. It's been a pleasure talking to you and thank you to all the listeners. If this episode resonated with you, please go and subscribe. can listen to our podcast on all major podcast platforms. Thanks again. Until next time.